* Feedback - Bashir city *

Feedback e debriefings from Berget 7.
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Hammer
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Post by Hammer » 30 Jun 2009, 10:01

The whole point with being an armed civilian is that you are indistinguishable from non-hostiles, thus being able to hide in plain sight.
If "real" unarmed civilians have different armbands from the "fake" or "armed" civilians you would loose that part of the game, which gives more intrigue, tension, roleplay and less meta-gaming.
Also, I am fairly certain that if the same thing would happen again as happened inside the church a different looking armband would make no difference.
/H17 - Hammer - Eidolon Lake

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Crapgame
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Post by Crapgame » 30 Jun 2009, 10:06

true, good point there.

i am one of those who like to mix Larp and airsoft to an amount and as i see it its the players that just want to shoot that shoots on everything. my concern in my first post was after ive seen the hits on the girls legs, i mean those where amongst the worse ive seen and could not have been from very far away! so my main concern was not about the fake/armed civilians but not getting people hurt that much.

but i see hammers point real good, i just care to much about people. :P
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B6: Nato
B7: Nato HQ
B8: Poldavian 3rd QRF
B9: Poldavian 5th
B10: Poldavian 15th Sappers
B11: Blood Raven HQ
B12: Yuri Orlov Mercs QRF
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Kartoon
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Post by Kartoon » 30 Jun 2009, 11:41

On saturday SRP walked into the City. We took positions some 50 to 150 meters from the centrum in a 360' perimeter and also had a strong presence in the city. Our troops were commanded to let any soldier, any civillian or anyone trough, who was willing to let us search them and confiscate their weapons.
Neat huh?

Well, again that sounds like a good idea and to me it's pretty much the way it should have been the whole game. There's a problem though that pretty much everyone who approached our check points started blasting the second they saw the yellow armbands.
Mikko Läntinen
Berget 6 - SRP, XO
Berget 7 - SRP, XO
Berget 8 - Poldavian 1st Infantry
Berget 9 - The Firm - Operations manager

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Kaiser
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Post by Kaiser » 30 Jun 2009, 15:16

Its interesting...

One of the biggest problems in Airsoft are the Cheaters... not the ones who want to have fun, and are committed to the game.

There were assaults on Bashir that ended up in blood, casino robbed, bank robbed.

The main problem was, the injuries on the "ladies", that has to be condemned.

I was in the attack on BC, on which, one of the guys that was with me, entered the bank.

The story portrayed is not as it has being twisted by some.

Initially i was called to go and help get some Norwegian guys, and we passed by the Civilians (who earlier shot at us in the first Bashir Nato Assault), and i even said "We have an agreement, we won´t shoot you you won´t shoot us!", and they replied positively.

As we were speaking to the Bashir Police, we had contact against us, and had to run for cover on Bashir, were the SRPs started shooting against us as well...

So, being shot by everyone, and the guys with me, shot back... so we started a battle on BC's grounds.

None of this actions were to ruin anyone's game, or even prejudice Command orders and such.

I think some people are giving too much importance to the pseudo rogue NATO, when there was no Rogue or Evil Nato.

We were attacked, we responded to the attack, entered bashir for cover, and held on for about 30 minutes.

Sad thing was, guys getting shot, and not calling hits, guys not caring about if they injured someone, guys shooting 140 mps guns at shortr distances and aiming for the face... and when called to the attention, saying --- SPAM !!! --- OFF, so what is worse??? A Cheater, and a guy that doesn't care about others safety, or a guy "protecting" himself and fighting for his "life" enjoying the game?
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Robman
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Post by Robman » 30 Jun 2009, 17:18

I've been a part of several MilSim games in the USA. This game was the first I had participated where alot of RP was integrated. I really enjoyed the RP and working in and around Bashir City.

I was a member of Milo's Tigers, but I was also an ex-member of US Army Spec Ops in real life. General Ober-Lix had already established his chain of command and HQ staff, but wanted me to use my skills in the RP. So, he gave me the freedom to work toward our team objectives as if I did back in the day.

I made special arrangements with the mayor to advance our drug trafficking. For example, Bashir City would receive 10% of all our sales and equal weight in medicinal supplies, such as morphine, in exchange the police would turn their heads and allow our business to fall through their fingers. So, even though the police still enforced the anti-drug law in Bashir City, they would return to me any confiscated heroine because I was paying them off.

I also would gain valuable intel by overhearing meetings between the CIA and the mayor when they worked together to establish a US embassy office in the city.

I paid off a taxi driver, traded info with the assistant mayor and chief of the mayor's security detail. I was in and around Bashir City at least 2 - 3 times a day and I would transmit whatever I discovered to my intel officer. Then my HQ staff would establish missions for our troop companies based on that intel.

Also, after I met with the NATO Commander and his Deputy Commander in their HQ, we came to a short alliance. I gave them intel on the other 2 factions and allowed them to joint use strong points we had captured for respawn. That agreement only lasted 1 day, but it still happened. We even made a joint attack with a couple NATO guys on Miner's Hut and gave it up to one of their squads because we were enroute to attack the SRP camp.

So, based on the intel I collected and the secret arrangements that I established, it gave more realistic MilSim missions for our troop companies to fight and engage our enemies. My intel allowed Milo's to attack the SRP camp twice without getting caught by their scouts or ambushes.

I even turned on my own General and sold him to the mayor and the SRP for $60,000 BE dollars because he wasn't paying us for all our hard work (in-game of course). But, what else do you expect a band of heroine criminals to do? We wanted to get paid.

The bottom line is that RP is definately needed to enhance the MilSim. But if the RP is ignored, the game just turns into a Sunday game of airsoft where everybody wants to shoot everybody else. Players just have to be patient during the first day for the RP to establish a good base line to create realistic missions.

And thanks to all those RP folks in Bashir City. You made my first Berget experience an awesome time to remember. I look forward to working with you again in B8.
Robert "Robman" Manore
Berget 7 - Milo's Tigers, Spec Ops
Berget 8 - Poldavian 15th PSYOPS, Intel Officer
Berget 9 - Town Elder, Townspeople of Janco
Berget 10 - Commander, NAF 9th Recon & Sniper

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Post by Eldoriath » 30 Jun 2009, 19:41

As a veteran LARPer I can only say that I liked it and would'nt mind if LARP became even more a part of the game. Though some issues could be good to clear up as some things became confusing even for me. And basically it's this:
When I attend I don't play a character, I'm myself (even though nick-names are more used then real names). So when I was executed even though I was innocent the thought came up: Can I appeal my own execution?

Even more basically:
Since I respawn and come back from the dead, how should one treat deaths? The person(s) you just killed will come back in an hour or so anyway.

Also:
Should one automatically pick up a basic character personality when picking a side? I e, the Milos were underpaid and risked deserting. This is a role-play thing since I don't really care wether or not I recieve extra B-dollars, but I should still role-play that it matters.


I'm not saying I got an answer that's good, but it's a thing that needs thinking about IMO. Also I must add that I had a great time and can't wait until Berget 8 =)
B5. Russia.
OC2. Militia.
B6. NATO, Bravo coy, 3rd Plt commander
B7. Milos tigers, Sibiria coy, 3rd Plt commander
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B9. UN, Coy commander

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Post by OttoK » 30 Jun 2009, 20:17

BC was really great, eventhough the almost constant fighting ate big amount of its edge. On the first night me and my friend Ville got a special mission: put on civilians clothes, infiltrate the town. Our mission was to identify an armsdealer, drugdealer (kill if possible) and establish connection to banker in order to deal SRP gold for money. Planning the mission was really thrilling, we had to hide our money (condom in a canteen) and other gear. We also scratched some civ-clothes and made our cover-story: Dr Kaipainen and Kytöläinen from doctors without borders, we are here to get the BC hospital running again. We managed to do everything but kill the apple-man.

I hope that this kind of a town will become a regular visitor in all Berget games!
B5 - FFF Squad Leader
B6 - SRP Squad Leader
B7 - SRP Squad Leader

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Post by Beckett » 01 Jul 2009, 00:55

Thursday:
Payed 100 B$ to go through BC and photograph India 4 in front of BC church.
Ask the father for the blessing of the unit and received one. Thank you, father.
Friday:
Went to BC with alpha group and part bravo group. Payed 50 B$ to priest for blessing of our unit. Payed 50 to hookie massage. Upon leaving we got info (thanks ORC trustee) that the priest had a lot of cash on him. I could not resist - I only explained the robbing plan to the 2 slovenians on the team - they agreed and I gave it a go. all others were ordered to wait in front of the bar, not knowing what was about to happen. Went to church for confession. Priest was turned upside down. Only 20 B$ that we did not take.
Instead we tried to knock out the casino. Was too well guarded for a "knife" and smuggled pistol. Went to NATO base. On rute 15 m from BC we,ve met bank manager and robbed him. 1500 B$ .. score :)
We ran from the police. In base the loot was distributed evenly to all paricipants :) and I was waiting for court marshal. I informed INDIA Coy what happened and my non complience with the orders (300 m NAOT base parimeter active recon).
Kaiser wrote: The main problem was, the injuries on the "ladies", that has to be condemned.
Should be sanctioned by NATO HQ. Nothing happened (hope I'm wrong).
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motorhead
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Post by motorhead » 01 Jul 2009, 01:15

Beckett wrote:Thursday:
...I only explained the robbing plan to the 2 slovenians on the team - they agreed and I gave it a go. all others were ordered to wait in front of the bar, not knowing what was about to happen. Went to church for confession. Priest was turned upside down. Only 20 B$ that we did not take.
Instead we tried to knock out the casino. Was too well guarded for a "knife" and smuggled pistol. Went to NATO base. On rute 15 m from BC we,ve met bank manager and robbed him. 1500 B$ .. score :)
We ran from the police. In base the loot was distributed evenly to all paricipants :) and I was waiting for court marshal. I informed INDIA Coy what happened and my non complience with the orders (300 m NAOT base parimeter active recon).
Kaiser wrote: The main problem was, the injuries on the "ladies", that has to be condemned.
Should be sanctioned by NATO HQ. Nothing happened (hope I'm wrong).
Thank you for ruining the game. I don't find your behaviour especially amusing or appropriate. That must be the sickest behaviour I've ever heard of in airsoft history.

Edit: This may also explain the story behind "India 4-Zero" suddenly appearing on our net. Was that also authorized by your COY? You carry some serious responsibility for destabilizing the relations between ingame NATO and the Bashir civilians. Do you realize what this did for the game dynamics at all?

Such behaviour was a direct violation of the NATO mandate inside Bashir and would in a realistic setting have resulted in court martial and severe punishment - not to mention destabilizing all media coverage of the NATO mission.
Last edited by motorhead on 01 Jul 2009, 02:10, edited 2 times in total.
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B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
B8: Pol. 3rd Mount. S6/Liaison - ditto
B9: Pol. 3rd Mount. Com dude - ditto
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Anrax
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Post by Anrax » 01 Jul 2009, 01:30

Kartoon wrote:I loved bashir!

The biggest reason why was propably because we came up with a cool idea to blow up the apple-selling guy (the drug dealer) with C4 instead of just shooting him. Our(SRP) mission was to assassinate him, you see.

We pretended to be building wireless communications systems to the town and carried the explosives in a crate that played the part of a Wi-Fi transmitter :P We actually even had to build the detonation cable ourselves from trip wire and tape. The electrical fuses were handy wen you just had to connect them to a PMR. CABOOM! Too bad this wasn't videotaped :D

What really sucked was the total lock down of Bashir City by NATO forces on the first night. I'm pretty sure no factions got any of their bashir -based missions completed due to this. If it was NATO's mission, though, then kudos to you. A job well done :wink:

I hope to see RP -elements such as BC in BE games in the future as well, it's a nice add on to the combat.
hehehe well you kill ondly one of ous :P
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Post by Johanna » 01 Jul 2009, 17:32

Thanks to everyone in BC and also all the visitors! I had a great time minding the shop. Even though NATO shot my cheeze! :D

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Post by Bersu » 01 Jul 2009, 17:51

I felt that when the Bashir City worked (being peaceful and friendly) it was a nice concept. We had a moment like this once in the game with my platoon. I was approached by the nice role playing ladies and police. I spent my dollars to the missionary work for the church (wich the father spent on casino?! :D).

I also spent money to the casino myself and I want to thank ripster for being great fun as casino host. You were really helpful about the rules and managed the game with ease. That really added a nice touch to the game for me. I also witnessed several smaller RP incidents in the city like this.

However, rest of the time the city sadly seemed to be amuzement for speedball airsofters and was pretty much either combat zone or NATO sealed area-51. The city was either too hard to get into, or was totally ravaged by lima company (or other parties at other times). That really ruined the city's purpose for me, even when we tried to secure elections with the SRP side. They were not held and we had the blew the place up :) .

All in all, berget crew: Next time make NATO more NATO and enforce players to follow their role as peacekeepers(and occasionally makers) or atleast their ROE. They should allow non-criminal and peaceful soldiers to the city to have fun. They should not rampage the city.
Berget 7 - SRP - Fox 3
Berget 8 - Poldovian 1st Inf
Berget 9 - The Firm & Zansian Blackops A03
Berget 10 - Zansian Blackguard
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Ripster
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Post by Ripster » 02 Jul 2009, 02:10

Thx Bersu !! I tried to do my best as the manager.

+ i totally agree with your comments on bashir. I accually had a feeling that there would be an election on saturday but we all know how that went :P

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Post by HAES » 02 Jul 2009, 02:15

Kartoon wrote:I loved bashir!

The biggest reason why was propably because we came up with a cool idea to blow up the apple-selling guy (the drug dealer) with C4 instead of just shooting him. Our(SRP) mission was to assassinate him, you see.
Next time warn the guy off game before you do somthing like that. My ear hurt a long time after that.

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Post by Nihil » 02 Jul 2009, 09:04

D-Cycle wrote:
The only thing that ruined the LARP-experience in and around Bashir was the reckless shooting of unarmed civilans. Me and my fellow xKaninen encountered a NATO-group wearing ACU just south of Bashir. We told them we where unarmed civilans that just wanted to pass through and they still just gunned us down. That did really ruin the whole setting of the story (WTF, NATO as bad guys!?). The same group also took several shots against off-game players wearing death rags, and also totally ignored the B7 Game Masters "Game-Off" shouts.
I was in that terrible mess around bashir city on NATO side and I strongly urge you to check your facts before you accuse anyone like that.

First of all, as many people said, most civilians were in fact MERCs or SRPs in disguise, or had a shady background, and we knew it.

Second, we never fired at any target not posing a threat, the civilians were carrying guns and firing at us. some of us were shot and killed.
we return fire.

Third- the dead rag wearing players were shot by accident because they were standing and talking on the middle of the road to bashir city, and their live, in-game friends used them as cover to sneak up on us!

I won't go into the whole "NATO vs. Game-masters" story as its long and unclear, but I will strongly advise you not to refer to this incident as in the end berget crew came to NATO base to apologize.

So please, stick to the facts or don't go throwing allegations around.

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