How did the camo restriction work?

Feedback e debriefings from Berget 8.

Did you think that OD and Desert restriction worked?

Yes it was much more less friendly fire!
101
48%
Yes but skip the armband for next year!
53
25%
No, it was not good.
55
26%
 
Total votes: 209

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Eldoriath
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Post by Eldoriath » 16 Jul 2010, 13:48

JuX wrote: im sure US marines have different camoflages at there disposal.
Actually, some troops in Iraq had to stick with their woodland camo since they didn't have enough desert unifroms or something. Don't know the details, just that not all was issued desert-camo.

But generally a country has enough uniforms to properly equip their soldiers with, that's true.

Different camo was nice for easy ID, but in lacking of that armbands are desperately needed since we are airsofters and not proper military =)
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Post by HELLFIRE » 28 Jul 2010, 11:44

JudgementDay wrote:Seriously though, the ghillie suits were about the only thing that offered a bit of a fair chance for NAF forces. With the terrain encountered, NAF forces were clearly visible at all times, while Poldavian forces had the full range of useful camouflage.

It stands to reason that all civilians partaking in battles wore colours of Poldavian-like camo, not colours you found in NAF camo.

While I agree that the OD restriction worked well and did not impede the civilians much, and also showed that they were non-military, the restriction for NAF forces was too much of a disadvantage with the chosen terrain.

@ RAG Recon: I fully agree on the part of different armies wearing different patterns. If this wasn't Airsoft with random people coming together without any military organization at all, the right rule/restriction would be for players to have only one specific pattern per side, one appropriate for the terrain the game is set in, and also have people only use weaponry of a specific kind (so only US gear on one side, Soviet gear on the other side, for example).

And to top things up, you could rule that each party may only communicate in a specific language, which would probably do a whole lot about identification, but is of course entirely impossible.

But since this is Airsoft, and people buy random stuff just to reflect what they like instead of which party they intend to belong to, I don't think that's possible. So in my eyes, the armband is the most sensible approach - if you want to avoid friendly fire because people can't bother to communicate before shooting.

If anything, I'd vote that the camo restriction is dropped, and the armbands are kept.
10000000000% agree!!

The armbands are a fair way of differentiating the two teams as they allow both teams to wear any uniforms they want and do not cause players to sacrifice a major part of the game by wearing them. If the players then decide to wear desert camo or any other camo that doesn't fit in with the environment then that's their choice, but atleast give them the choice!

The major problems with different uniforms are, as mentioned:

If one team is forced to wear lighter colours such as Desert they aren't actually using camouflage... They may as well be wearing bright pink or some other colour. This is of course a huge disadvantage, especially when the other team is forced to wear camouflage that is designed to blend in with the environment.

Also I have a few Swedish mates who wanted to wear Woodland M90, I have a few German mates who wanted to wear Flecktarn, I have a few British mates that all wanted to wear Woodland DPM and I wanted to wear Multicam. According to the rules for this years Berget I could not wear multicam because that would mean I would have to be on the opposite team to all of my friends, what fun is that?! None at all is the answer, instead I had to wear DPM just so I could play on the same team. I bet this happens to a lot or people that all want to wear different camouflages and are forced to wear one particular type because of the "uniform" restrictions.

Do the sensible thing and get rid of the uniform restrictions and just keep arm bands.

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Filippo
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Post by Filippo » 28 Jul 2010, 13:41

In my opinion, the choice of Berget crew to divide players into 2 big and well defined armies with 2 strong different "color bases" (desert and forest) has been really cool and it worked very good.
I played in B6, B7 and this year at B8 and I must say that it worked much better than the past ones.
First of all, the choice between desert and forest made more clear and simple the game (and also really nice and impressive in "scenography/visual terms").
Secondly, for what I noticed, it moved the old and usual choices of many players (that everyone know) of the past editions....who were used to go to the "nato" side or "russian/alternative" side etc...
And I liked it a lot.
I must say also that, even if I didn't expect it, the desert camouflage worked more than imagined in the game.
About armbands....I don't like them but they are fucking usefull and necessary; I don't remember how many times I had to show mine to comrades who couldn't distinguish from which side i was.
Yeah I know, it's quite strange and to see a difference between desert and forest should be easy.....but often it wasn't...or often just people wanted to be sure and asked to show your armbands, treating to shoot you.
So, for me, UP for armbands and UP for desert/forest armies.
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Post by hezi » 28 Jul 2010, 14:31

Filippo wrote:In my opinion, the choice of Berget crew to divide players into 2 big and well defined armies with 2 strong different "color bases" (desert and forest) has been really cool and it worked very good.
I played in B6, B7 and this year at B8 and I must say that it worked much better than the past ones.
First of all, the choice between desert and forest made more clear and simple the game (and also really nice and impressive in "scenography/visual terms").
I must say also that, even if I didn't expect it, the desert camouflage worked more than imagined in the game.
To answer to Filippo,
Of curse it worked for you and to all Poldavian forces,
You saw us coming form a mile long with our desert camo uniform…. :)

I totally agree with what HELLFIRE and JudgementDay wrote
With our desert camo style we were so bare, while our opponents had the advantage of camo that blends in the Swedish forest.

Since I saw this from the NAF side,
I certainly can say it wasn't working for us,
So drop the case of the uniform restrictions and just keep arm bands
The Brigade Team
B7, NATO, INDIA Company, 2 platoon
B8, NAF, 5th Battalion
B9, NAF, 3rd Ranger Battalion
B11, Blood Revens
B13, GCT, Special Parachute Infantry
B14, UPIR Infantry

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Post by JBlack » 29 Jul 2010, 08:22

I think that desert style worked well. I served on Poldavia, but there was many situation when I had to check many times am I going to shot friends or enemy.

But what if there would be like OD side, Old style camos side (woodland, flora, m62, etc) and digital camos side? Then every one would have change to get suitable camo but still sides would be distinguishable... at least when you are too close :D

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Post by hezi » 29 Jul 2010, 10:51

As I see it if we are looking from the Milsim type, then in every Air-Soft game there is an event of friendly fire that occurs.
But a good commander should always know where his forces are deployed, and there way of advance so the events of friendly fire will occur less as possible as can be.

For me I can say that since in my country we have the same low as the Swedish low that says "every man / woman / traveler has the right to camp or travel within every forest or field that are open for public"
Due to this role that implies in my country, and since we had some encounters with civilians during my team training or game, we always must check that what we are shooting at is an Air-Soft player and not a poor civilian that wrongly stepped into an Air-Soft game area.

So it's no matter to me since I always check on how I fire upon.
Last edited by hezi on 29 Jul 2010, 14:20, edited 1 time in total.
The Brigade Team
B7, NATO, INDIA Company, 2 platoon
B8, NAF, 5th Battalion
B9, NAF, 3rd Ranger Battalion
B11, Blood Revens
B13, GCT, Special Parachute Infantry
B14, UPIR Infantry

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Crapgame
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Post by Crapgame » 29 Jul 2010, 12:19

Hezi wrote:
To answer to Filippo,
Of curse it worked for you and to all Poldavian forces,
You saw us coming form a mile long with our desert camo uniform…


Well you and everyone on the NAF side who are complaining, you choosed to play on NAF side and you were aware that you had desert/light uniforms so there is no way you should complain about being seen och having a bad game beacuse of uniforms. you had the option of playing on Poldavian side.

:wink:
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B7: Nato HQ
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B11: Blood Raven HQ
B12: Yuri Orlov Mercs QRF
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Ober-Lix
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Post by Ober-Lix » 29 Jul 2010, 14:07

Thats a load of ... You in sweden might know that the game area had no sandy areas and only complete woodland but a lot of players from other countries like the south of europe don´t know that.
Telling them "tough luck" you could have joined the poldavians is absolute nonsense. If all who joint NAF,would have joint the poldavians, who would you have left to be the enemy ?
:P :?
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Post by hezi » 29 Jul 2010, 14:28

Crapgame wrote: Well you and everyone on the NAF side who are complaining, you choosed to play on NAF side and you were aware that you had desert/light uniforms so there is no way you should complain about being seen och having a bad game beacuse of uniforms. you had the option of playing on Poldavian side.
But still using desert camo in forest is a little odd,
I'm not complaining I have chosen it from my free will, but next time I won't be joining the side with the desert camo
and if it will be like that, then in the next game every body will be on the same side since they all will be wearing woodland camo..........and no one to fight with due to that there is no one on the desert side :lol:
The Brigade Team
B7, NATO, INDIA Company, 2 platoon
B8, NAF, 5th Battalion
B9, NAF, 3rd Ranger Battalion
B11, Blood Revens
B13, GCT, Special Parachute Infantry
B14, UPIR Infantry

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Post by Redmenace_tv » 29 Jul 2010, 15:25

Been wearing desert at my regular airsoft games in the forest since.
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Post by HELLFIRE » 29 Jul 2010, 17:24

Crapgame wrote:Well you and everyone on the NAF side who are complaining, you choosed to play on NAF side and you were aware that you had desert/light uniforms so there is no way you should complain about being seen och having a bad game beacuse of uniforms. you had the option of playing on Poldavian side.

:wink:
Sorry, but this is a very childish attitude- I'm glad you're not the person making the decisions... As it's been mentioned if everyone decided to play with woodland camo, with camo restrictions everyone would be on the same team and therefore there would be no enemy and we'd all have a pretty boring Berget...

Also the only people that seem to be saying the camo restrictions worked well are the people that got to play in woodland camo...

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Post by hezi » 29 Jul 2010, 21:08

HELLFIRE wrote:
Sorry, but this is a very childish attitude- I'm glad you're not the person making the decisions... As it's been mentioned if everyone decided to play with woodland camo, with camo restrictions everyone would be on the same team and therefore there would be no enemy and we'd all have a pretty boring Berget...

Also the only people that seem to be saying the camo restrictions worked well are the people that got to play in woodland camo...
+1 :)
The Brigade Team
B7, NATO, INDIA Company, 2 platoon
B8, NAF, 5th Battalion
B9, NAF, 3rd Ranger Battalion
B11, Blood Revens
B13, GCT, Special Parachute Infantry
B14, UPIR Infantry

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Post by NL_Lexxie » 29 Jul 2010, 22:52

Crapgame wrote: Well you and everyone on the NAF side who are complaining, you choosed to play on NAF side and you were aware that you had desert/light uniforms so there is no way you should complain about being seen och having a bad game beacuse of uniforms. you had the option of playing on Poldavian side.

:wink:
+1

Every action has a consequence, think about this when you choose next year.

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Post by Crapgame » 30 Jul 2010, 10:33

@ Ober-Lix
there is google, wikipedia, pics from previous bergets and swedish players to ask if one wants to know the terrain in scandinavia. there is no excuse to not make research if you really want to know. so no there should not be complaints, there was a free choice. alot of players also have been to several bergets OR know someone who has.
(and i dont think you like me and i dont like you)

@ Hellfire
I see your post is as childish as mine then, saying thet we "got" to play in
woodland. we didnt get to play in it, we choose. and using the argument that it wouldnt have been a game if all choose woodland is very thin. im glad for sure that people choosed to play on NAF side, but i dont see how one can complain that it was unfair to split camos like that if one willingly have chosen to play on the light side and payed money to do so, then he/she have made their choice.

Also alot of the poldavians are saying thet htey had a hard time seeing NAF guys and try to identify teams. so its not like the poldavians are saying good things only for themselves. i personally was totally
surprised by the filipinos out in the woods (love those guys) they had light uniforms and were not used to the terrain but still they remained hidden, so good that me and one of them got shot almost sitting in the same bush.

@ Hezi
i think youre a fun guy, also IRL. i liked your second post.
"still using desert camo is a little odd" then why did you?
haha. and Ober-lix reason doesent work for you as youve been to
berget before :)
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B6: Nato
B7: Nato HQ
B8: Poldavian 3rd QRF
B9: Poldavian 5th
B10: Poldavian 15th Sappers
B11: Blood Raven HQ
B12: Yuri Orlov Mercs QRF
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Crapgame
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Post by Crapgame » 30 Jul 2010, 10:39

@ Ober-Lix
there is google, wikipedia, pics from previous bergets and swedish players to ask if one wants to know the terrain in scandinavia. there is no excuse to not make research if you really want to know. so no there should not be complaints, there was a free choice. alot of players also have been to several bergets OR know someone who has.
(and i dont think you like me and i dont like you)

@ Hellfire
I see your post is as childish as mine then, saying thet we "got" to play in
woodland. we didnt get to play in it, we choose. and using the argument that it wouldnt have been a game if all choose woodland is very thin. im glad for sure that people choosed to play on NAF side, but i dont see how one can complain that it was unfair to split camos like that if one willingly have chosen to play on the light side and payed money to do so, then he/she have made their choice.

Also alot of the poldavians are saying thet htey had a hard time seeing NAF guys and try to identify teams. so its not like the poldavians are saying good things only for themselves. i personally was totally
surprised by the filipinos out in the woods (love those guys) they had light uniforms and were not used to the terrain but still they remained hidden, so good that me and one of them got shot almost sitting in the same bush.

@ Hezi
i think youre a fun guy, also IRL. i liked your second post.
"still using desert camo is a little odd" then why did you?
haha. and Ober-lix reason doesent work for you as youve been to
berget before :)
B5: Allied MP
B6: Nato
B7: Nato HQ
B8: Poldavian 3rd QRF
B9: Poldavian 5th
B10: Poldavian 15th Sappers
B11: Blood Raven HQ
B12: Yuri Orlov Mercs QRF
B13: Ikaros Mech
B14: NAF Mech
B15: NAF Mech
B16: NAF Mech

Swedish living/working in Finland

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