What really happen whit civilians at the end

Talisman · Post by **Talisman** » 04 Jul 2011, 01:29

Rythm wrote:As a UN Platoon XO: Our ROE changed dramaticly on thursday, after the Poldavians crushed the southern checkpoint and after a stand-off then assaulted into Janco and and into the UN Base, overrunning it. Why the Poldavians did this i still dont know. (Once again sorry to the Poldavian unit of some 20 blokes that we machinegunned in the middle of our LARPing at the northern checkpoint, the new ROE came over the radio as we spoke...

From that point on, there were so many regular attacks on the VCPs and the UN-base that the acting Battalion Commander (Crazydog) ordered UN to defend only the UN base itself. Wich wasnt strange since we were so extremly outnumbered (fighting force of 67 IIRC) against the Poldavians, and the "powerfull NATO airstrikes" turned out to be rather useless.

The ROE versus civilians was only shoot in selfdefence. I dont know, but i think we didnt kill any civilians. except in the miserably failed airstrikes.

ROE against NAF changed so many times i cant count them. sometimes we were best buddies and they could respawn in our base, sometimes we were about to launch massive airstrikes on their base and we were to shoot them on sight.

Considering how many times the poldavians overrunned Janco/UN-base i fully understand that the civilian LARPing was a minimum. The little LARPing i managed to squeeze in was great fun tough.

I was one of the guys at the north roadblock at the time. I must say that we were all really pissed. Even if the orders changed, how about: "You are not welcome here anymore, go away or we open fire"? Instead some guys got a real swarm of bullets hitting them in their ears, heads and other hurtful places.

I only had the chance to see Janco with a death rag passing trough. Also the tents that were set on the east side of Janco should have been removed. We were told that there was no hiding or using the tents as cover under our major attack on Friday, which was very unfair for us attackers.
(Also you on the top-gun of the big armoured truck. Start to take hits when you get hit in the helmet!!)

If we could get a city that was more neutral for an upcoming berget, interaction with the civilians and others would be more possible.
I only had some encounter with civilians, and it always went peacefully. Except the guys who attacked the Pol. base.

And lastly for UN. After the second Pol. wave on Friday evening, I led a small flanking strike team of 3 guys on your base. We came from the east side, down the hill and got pretty close before we opened fire.
Starting with the sniper, and work on the shooters. The fellow on the camping chair next to the UN base opening got a real scare. From our point of view it looked like we made a lot of chaos.
We all survived the attack, thus MG's and 40mm was fired in our direction. We climbed up the hill again, and got lased with a powerful green laser. (Please be careful with that, cause if the beam hits one eyes it could do permanent damage)
On the way down we took out a ghillied Italian sniper patrol. And one of them should really learn to take hits. Not ending the firefight in; "Ok, ok... Bastardo" after you dont hit anything.

yasirotta · Post by **yasirotta** » 04 Jul 2011, 05:34

D-Cycle wrote: I wonder if lack of English language skills increases the lack of interest to LARP with civilians. Those bad experiences I've had are mostly involved with players that don't speak or speak very bad english.

I believe, that diffrent languages increases LARP.
Reason is, that you need other player for translation. You dont know do he translate ALL whats going on, specially if translator is one of civilians. This is big LARP factor, where even single rifleman have to think whats going on.

I said this many times before, and i say it again. Lots of Poldavians wasnt intrested about talking, even they got strange encrypted codes. They should ask questions, but what they did was knifekilling. I dont say all Poldavians was bad, but if you read my 1st message you see why im pissed off.

Berget Crew did lots of work to get civilians get LARP, but some Poldavians ruined that very bad. Try to play civilians next time, so i can shoot you. Why in the hell we should do so much work as civilians whit our clothes, equipment and such, if everything goes fuckd up ?

Is fully armed civilians better then ?
What the hell you you "i want shoot all" people think anyway ?

I dont know do i play next berget. If i play, im thinking of shooting all persons specially Italians and Russians just for "fun". I

I dont know what i should do, cos this been long way problem.

And, i want say that all isnt pricks. Once again, some Poldavian was good. Those who kept me alive, and that group i talked on off-game (where was one girl whit them) about destroying church civs inside. Yes, some Poldavians was good, but on my sight, not all.

I hope you can read between lines, why im so mad about this.

Crapgame · Post by **Crapgame** » 04 Jul 2011, 10:05

First!
People kiling civilians might be player that were only on berget to shoot, they might have no experience with LARP or Scenario gaming. this type of player exists in every team!

Second!
Poldavia didnt attack Janco, we attacked the UN once and after that both firm and UN started firing on Poldavians every time we tried to enter the city so dont push us over the line! thats why some players started shooting before asking after that, espescially if you where armed!!!

Third!
TO The UN
you where hostile from the begining and if you want to go around being sour about being shoot at then ask your leaders why you where not neutral and why you did not back down (as real UN would) when a threat appears. Dont blaim us for shooting when you where hostile!
BAD LARP in the UN

four!
@ yasirotta
Why did you not contact the game-masters, marshalls or Trustees (must have been at least one in Janco) and take the armband numbers of those you thought where cheating?

TO ALL
There is a reason there are Game-masters, marshalls, Berget-trustees!
and it says that if you find out someone is cheating take armband number and talk to them!

JKangas · Post by **JKangas** » 04 Jul 2011, 10:09

yasirotta, you might have just been unlucky with your encounters (which of course sucks). As Firm employees we went round the game area a fair amount both with and without long guns / battle rigs, and got into very tense encounters with both NAF and Poldavian folks but were never simply shot on sight in unappropriate situations. Or so I believe - we got some randomish BAVS fire, but can never be sure if it was LARPing failure on our side or just a trigger-happy guy with a RPG.

Overall I was _personally_ positively surprised that we as civilians were never simply a target even though all scheming and plotting might have given some reason to simply shoot them on sight instead. I was somewhat expecting the situation to collapse somewhere around day 2-3 but did not really see this happening. Your mileage might vary, of course.

Dark_Eden · Post by **Dark_Eden** » 04 Jul 2011, 10:45

Talisman wrote: I was one of the guys at the north roadblock at the time. I must say that we were all really pissed. Even if the orders changed, how about: "You are not welcome here anymore, go away or we open fire"? Instead some guys got a real swarm of bullets hitting them in their ears, heads and other hurtful places.

I was also in the mentioned incident at the roadblock and would also like to apologize for any pain I might have caused this Polovian team. I hope the bruising will settle, and as I said at the time, I hope we can meet again under more pleasant circumstances!

cf_dima · Post by **cf_dima** » 04 Jul 2011, 10:51

Hey guys,

I was squad leader with Mountaineers 1coy 2nd plt and was taking part in that so-called attack on Janco on Saturday.

Let me try to describe how it looked from our side:

1) We got an order to move on a hill right next to Janco and set up a defensive positions.
2) When we were approaching that hill we were engaged by UN forces that were already there.
3) We fought them off the hill and they have retreated toward the bushes bordering Janco.
4) We set up a defensive positions.
5) Either respawned UN troops or Firm or civis started to shoot at us from Janco and bushes around it. We have started to sustain hits (including me) and thus 1 plt was ordered to flank and clean the bush line so our medics could treat the wounded.
6) When the hostiles spoted our maneuvre, they started to retreat to Janco itself using houses as a cover + someone started to shoot with GBB handguns from the windows of the big houses.
7) So we had no choice but to follow up the retreating enemy and clear all the houses to prevent any more casualties.

When my squad starting its attack on Janco, there were no UN troops visible but alot of guys in civ clothes shooting with handguns and rifles at us and taking cover behind or inside houses.
I was hit by one of them the second time and moved to respawn point at Construction Site.

As for the church incident, the civis were hiding the UN commander inside the bank not allowing our troops to enter the building. After some long negotiations we have entered the bank and saw the guy, but! he was knive killed by one of civi to not get him in our hands - fairplay my ass.

So our Coy commander decided to act LARP and deal with unfriendly civis once and for all - so the other towns and civis beeing friendly with Poldavians next time or next life

.

In the end i'd like to add that we have not been shooting civis on spot neither before nor after that incident.

mc205 · Post by **mc205** » 04 Jul 2011, 12:08

This was my first Berget and I had a lot of fun.

I played as Poldavian in 5th Btn

I was a simple soldier and I never had the chance to understand the real situation on the field; I followed orders and that's all.

We never shooted civilian before they shooted us, but we were shooted many times by civilian or peoples dressed liked them.

99% of players I met, were honest and got their hits.

Saturday only I saw 3 civilian players (with turbants) and 2 NAF guys equipped with a kind of magic shield

protecting them from our bullets; never of them was from the Countries Yasirotta wrote about (they spoke different languages).

I thought that 5 people within 1500 players were nothing, and I was happy to have had the opportunity to play with so much fantastic mates.

Pls try to stay away from stereotypes and do not offend whole Nations only because you met some silly guys.

Doc

Tiger_1 · Post by **Tiger_1** » 04 Jul 2011, 13:16

I dont know about the rest of people, but I came to berget to play airsoft, I came to have big fights with other airsofters that offered me as a commander a tactical challenge, I did NOT come to berget to watch a small nr of players play dress up and having to give up my weapon for the privilege!!!!
I am sure being a civilian in a real war zone is hell, well, you got to live a fraction of that, stuff it in your LARP pipe and smoke it!!!

Windi^ · Post by **Windi^** » 04 Jul 2011, 13:21

Third!
TO The UN
you where hostile from the begining and if you want to go around being sour about being shoot at then ask your leaders why you where not neutral and why you did not back down (as real UN would) when a threat appears. Dont blaim us for shooting when you where hostile!
BAD LARP in the UN

Not true. We made a deal with Poldavians on Wednesday evening to let them trough to Janco with their vehicles and weapons, no problems at all. We also drive past you base and met some unit on the bunker hill crossroads, not problems at all. Next thing I know was that Poldavians were storming UN base and Janco whole Thursday, basically. And that continued to the end of the game. I don't know what led to this. But we were not hostile to anybody from the start. We agreed to let anyone to the Janco as long as there is no weapons, or if there was weapons (Poldavian convoy), the agreement was that UN troops led the convoy trough the city.

Baron · Post by **Baron** » 04 Jul 2011, 13:24

Crapgame wrote: Third!
TO The UN
you where hostile from the begining and if you want to go around being sour about being shoot at then ask your leaders why you where not neutral and why you did not back down (as real UN would) when a threat appears. Dont blaim us for shooting when you where hostile!
BAD LARP in the UN

Larping was down due to several attacks on city and UN.
Every 2-3 hours an attack came on the UN base, different people most of the time so I can only assume it was all three poldavian groups.
During game on wednesday I was shoot down twice from Poldavien soldiers telling them "This is the UN, don't shoot" along with "You may not carry guns into the DMZ"

After 3 hours into the game I recieve my first hit from Poldavian Soldiers at South checkpoint. Second hit is between the city and respawn. I was in the city informing italian players that we are the un, don't come in with guns. So I may assume that's why they shoot me?

By the end of Wednesday we had lost roughly 10 people to poldavians firing first. RoE simply went out the window.

In order to save ourselves from having to do LARPING and than being shoot down anyway.

On thursdaymorning at 11'oclock we recieved a massive attack on the base. Poldavians. That's 2 hours into the game. I do believe we had the Artillery there and some other poldavians attacking.

And from that moment we had to defend ourselves.

whiskey · Post by **whiskey** » 04 Jul 2011, 13:32

cf_dima wrote: As for the church incident, the civis were hiding the UN commander inside the bank not allowing our troops to enter the building. After some long negotiations we have entered the bank and saw the guy, but! he was knive killed by one of civi to not get him in our hands - fairplay my ass.

Dima, just to make the UN guy incident clear:
- the guy was NOT the UN commander, he was the boss of UN Military Police (and a. very corrupt one)
- we hated him because he was trying to extort protection from us
- I personally paid one of the Russian Poldavians to brings us this guy once they captured him
- I personally shot him with a. 44 magnum and one of my guys knifekilled him so that he couldn't be healed.
This shows how far you might from correctly understanding whats going on even though you're convinced you know whats going on.

Brujo · Post by **Brujo** » 04 Jul 2011, 13:40

+1 to Tiger's writing.
Sorry to interfere with this topic as I haven't participated at B9, but will be there for the 10th I promise.

Having tried many other airsoft games with LARP, often where I did not at all speak the language of LARPS (hungarian, czech, slovak), I should give a hint to BE that it is all about rules. Creating trigger-proof rules! Create certain situations impossible by rules. Shit like casino, bank, church etc. are working great if there is a no-weapon rule for everyone in the town. Player socialising is hight and also espionage is running high in mixed environment. Killing goes on outside the perimeter as usual.

If weapons are possible in the town - then the strongest will prevail. It is so in every war. And yes, the civilians are getting the worst impression of the war. Atrocities are still "popular" in today's real wars, without any reason too. And they can be so easily removed from airsoft - in the rules

Please write more positive experiences and impressions from LARP as I love to read about those...

ryu · Post by **ryu** » 04 Jul 2011, 13:41

Baron wrote: On thursdaymorning at 11'oclock we recieved a massive attack on the base. Poldavians. That's 2 hours into the game. I do believe we had the Artillery there and some other poldavians attacking.

And from that moment we had to defend ourselves.

I can tell you what the Poldavian artillery was doing there, we simply took a wrong turn, and was only turning around with our heavy cannon.

While doing so, we first got blasted from the left looking from your view by an small unknown force, and then we got pinned down by NAF troops on the mountain side (right).

In the end it was only me and one more guy alive, and when I tried to take cover behind our vehicle, a UN soldier standing next to the truck shoot me in the leg.
I guess he thought I was about to attack him or something, because i ran like crazy to be able to reach cover behind the truck.
Shit happens.

OT: I never saw you Baron, too bad could have been fun to exchange a couple of words off game. Maybe next year.

Lanzo · Post by **Lanzo** » 04 Jul 2011, 14:22

whiskey wrote:
cf_dima wrote: As for the church incident, the civis were hiding the UN commander inside the bank not allowing our troops to enter the building. After some long negotiations we have entered the bank and saw the guy, but! he was knive killed by one of civi to not get him in our hands - fairplay my ass.
Dima, just to make the UN guy incident clear:
- the guy was NOT the UN commander, he was the boss of UN Military Police (and a. very corrupt one)
- we hated him because he was trying to extort protection from us
- I personally paid one of the Russian Poldavians to brings us this guy once they captured him
- I personally shot him with a. 44 magnum and one of my guys knifekilled him so that he couldn't be healed.
This shows how far you might from correctly understanding whats going on even though you're convinced you know whats going on.

Well it kind of shows how little YOU actually know;) we where 2 UN soldiers in the bank protecting the UN commander in there....
You killed the UN MP chief outside the Bank but the UN Commander was still inside the bank when you killed the MP chief and i got taken prisoner by the Russians in 3rd

the russians who searched the Bank did not find him under the counter and jackets i put over him.

When i was taken prisoner i was not searched or asked for any information just knifekilled outside the church.

BUT i have to say one thing, not all the Russians are bad or unfair or wahatever you want to call it, the guy who knifekilled me was shaking his head and saying: sorry man, i got ordered to do this, and when they entered the bank they did it with no guns fired.

Dark_Eden · Post by **Dark_Eden** » 04 Jul 2011, 14:40

Lanzo wrote:BUT i have to say one thing, not all the Russians are bad or unfair or wahatever you want to call it, the guy who knifekilled me was shaking his head and saying: sorry man, i got ordered to do this, and when they entered the bank they did it with no guns fired.

I agree to full extent, do not under ANY cicrcumstances assume that just because players are poldovian/naf or from sweden/skåne/russia/bulgaria/the moon etc. they are a-holes that does'nt follow the rules. We can all have run-ins with people who do not follow the rules, could'nt care less about safety distances and are being rude but then don't go home to respawn and say all people from poldovia/russia/finland/skåne/the moon are assholes. And don't even think about doing the same to the next group you'll meet or soon this hobby will be no more.

So my point is: If you face people from the moon playing unfair, take his armband ID, contact GM and continue to play fair and safe throughout the game. Go back to respawn, tell your friends "I met a guy from the moon that SUCKED" but otherwise treat the next moondweller with honesty and respect.

Just saying since I am hearing a lot of "Poeple from this country cheat" and so forth.