improvement suggestions for B10

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 9
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Hell_Viking
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improvement suggestions for B10

Post by Hell_Viking » 10 Jul 2011, 17:31

Lets all try to channel everything into specific suggestions. No " make it all over better, with something new. "

I'll start:

I'd like to see a REGIMENTAL STAFF at B10. So, instead of three BAT CO's that has to try to compromise with each other, you'll have ONE leader, Its intent , and Its orders to follow. Soldiers will feel part of something bigger, and not just "competing" with the other two BAT.
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Post by Furey » 10 Jul 2011, 18:10

I agree wholeheartedly.

Also I think there should be a more comprehensive and yet more concise set of rules to print off. To find all the rules you should not have to rely on hearsay from the forums.

In hindsight I would not have anyone dressing as civilians and attacking any side, as this was a cause for hostility towards civilians. I think that the UN should not wear blue armbands, just hats, as I thought they were NAF on occasion.

Actually, what I have found from UK games is that commanders should not be paying to play, they should be members of staff in a way, so they are trying to achieve the best game possible for the attendees beneath them (and on the other side) rather than that objective competing with their own need to have a fun game.

Just small comments though, it was a superb game!
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Post by Tiger_1 » 10 Jul 2011, 19:15

But how? We asked for a few guys to help out our hq this year, not one came forward...poldavian side has had a information sharing hq in two games now, it worked better last year then this year due to Coms issues, but it still worked. And might seem that we did not coordinate, but that is not true. I just have not got the time to tell MG gunner in 3rd squad 5th platoon 2coy that I had a chat with the other bn commanders on the phone.
Information flow is always going to be an issue. If you want info, ask your squad leader, he will ask the platoon commander, and so on.
Also acept that when you are MG gunner 3rd squad, you actually don't need to know ALL the facts that led to your unit being given a mission to guard a road. You must trust that the officers leading you are doing this based on some plan. If every one was given all the info, we would all stand around listing to radioes and phones. Those of you that served with me the last two games may have noticed that I carried 3 radioes and 2 mobile phones. All the information those channels give me form my plan process.
Personally, I have been in leadership pos 3 times at berget now. Once I was stuck in hq in a pure staff role, that worked, but gave me little contact with the men. The last two years I have had my hq in the field moving with the men, and that has worked very well for me, I will not change that style of leadership.
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Post by Furey » 10 Jul 2011, 19:39

On the other hand, it is not difficult to have a board with all some current objectives/achievements on it outside HQ, and/or have your officers and NCO's feed information down the chain at briefs (which everyone in the chain of command should make time for before conducting an op), even though they clearly don't need all the information. Real soldiers operate more effectively with a simplified but overall battlefield picture, and airsoft soldiers will get more enjoyment from their game if they have an impression of the big picture. We lost contact with our the chain of command on occasion so some overall commander always in HQ would be beneficial to report to. I feel some potential 'hows' are illustrated in the above 2 posts.

Like I say, non paying staff in HQ improves everyone's game to a huge degree in my experience. Its a universal truth that very few paying airsoft players will not step forward for C&C roles.
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Buffel
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Post by Buffel » 10 Jul 2011, 19:47

Hey, won't that board make an epic objective for opposing recon, too? ;)
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Post by A_Muller » 10 Jul 2011, 19:49

*I'd like to see it enforced that you must be able to at least speak and understand decent english (accents don't matter of course).

*Make it 100% clear that you can not speak when dead, especially not in any other language than english so that you might be relaying info to alive teammates and other's around can't call out any possible cheating. This also goes for using radios after you're dead.

*Working radio repeaters is a MUST.

*A plan B in case a lot of players drop out, 3rd NAF Rangers lost about 50% of the registered players. Our platoon was 8 people, EIGHT (!), so be prepared to change missions accordingly.

*I'd love to see better props, both in base as well as out in the field. It always enhances the feel of the game.

*Cold-burning pull-ring smoke grenades for infantry would really change the dynamics of the game.

*Simulated MEDEVAC/CASEVAC and/or better wounded and medic rules.
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Post by Furey » 10 Jul 2011, 19:52

Buffel wrote:Hey, won't that board make an epic objective for opposing recon, too? ;)
Sure, you'll give away some int if you let the enemy walk up to your HQ, but that gives the enemy something to do as well! My point of view is that you have to constantly review your objective, is it to beat the enemy or to make sure everyone has a good time?
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Post by Hell_Viking » 10 Jul 2011, 19:58

second the idea of all C&C roles is free of charge, As long as they are HQ based . I believe that greater forces need to have a static HQ with designated officers to manage their tasks.
Staff:
REG CO
REG NCO

J2 - INTEL
J3 - Plan,OPS
J5 - Communications

These roles are in my mind the most critical to have in a static HQ during the whole event to coordinate and share info .
And tiger I fully agree that there is no problem operating and managing a BAT from a FOB. But still feel the need for a static HQ that works.
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motorhead
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Post by motorhead » 10 Jul 2011, 20:58

Hell_Viking wrote:second the idea of all C&C roles is free of charge, As long as they are HQ based . I believe that greater forces need to have a static HQ with designated officers to manage their tasks.
Staff:
REG CO
REG NCO

J2 - INTEL
J3 - Plan,OPS
J5 - Communications

These roles are in my mind the most critical to have in a static HQ during the whole event to coordinate and share info .
And tiger I fully agree that there is no problem operating and managing a BAT from a FOB. But still feel the need for a static HQ that works.
Spot on! There's no way 3-4 different batallions can operate coordinated without a Brigade or Regimental staff HQ - with relevant coordinating decisionmakers with the power to issue orders and detail specific missions outside the envelope of Berget-Events task objectives.

The sheer size of this airsoft game requires static HQ's when NAF and Poldavian forces operate several batallions of several hundreds of field operatives.

This year a FOB was the most effective for 3rd Mountaineers, but there was a noticeable vacuum at the passified Poldavian HQ this year because of

A) failing long-range radio repeaters ( this is the 3rd year BE appear to fail refuelling the repeater generator! )

B) Failing inter-batallion staff info-flow because of the above

C) Failing implementation of 320th Artillery into Poldavian operations due to lack of HQ staff and failing long-range COM

The Regimental/Brigade HQ can also be an important asset for updating and informing players after respawning or RTB. Based on collected data from the field we can actually enhance the Berget experience for players otherwise being passified.

Edit: The way Berget has evolved - the simulated military command chain must be functional and reflect the size of actual operations and the actual amount of roleplayed units:

Participants in previous Berget games:
Berget 1: 50
Berget 2: 120
Berget 3: 300
Berget 4: 700
Berget 5: 1100
Berget 6: 1200
Berget 7: 1300
Berget 8: 1400
Berget 9: ?


How to recruit such dedicated staff? Same as Berget 8 last year:
- Announce these functions as free of charge/entry fee admin jobs for volunteers.
When we take those jobs we simply play those roles without the urge to shoot BB's and team up as vital ingame infrastructure players and parts of the Berget staff.
Last edited by motorhead on 11 Jul 2011, 00:11, edited 6 times in total.
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Post by Tiger_1 » 10 Jul 2011, 21:35

I do not disagree with the joint hq (my idea for berget 8 ) I just don't see how you will get people to man it. Making it free MIGHT help, but I am not sure, we have been lucky that motorhead has done this for us two years now..
Most bn at berget are in fact litle bigger then real life companies, they do not require a static hq uless the commander feels he needs one.

A info board might sound good, but it will not work. That is my statement, and feel free to try, and then we can see after who is right ;)
Airsofters are inherently lazy, if they can't read the rules of the game they are coming to, or the forum for their side, why should they suddenly seek information on their own at the game? No it seems it is better to wait until after the game, and then sit and say "nobody told me anything" my initial response then is always, "did you ask?" because if you don't ask, people will not tell you, this is not something that only aplys to airsoft, in a job the same thing will happen if you don't take an intrest.
Last edited by Tiger_1 on 11 Jul 2011, 06:26, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by motorhead » 10 Jul 2011, 21:48

"Ask not what Berget can do for you.
Ask what YOU can do for Berget!"

:cooltank: :team:
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B7: NATO S6 - smoke signal operator
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Hell_Viking
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Post by Hell_Viking » 10 Jul 2011, 22:05

motorhead wrote:"Ask not what Berget can do for you.
Ask what YOU can do for Berget!"

:cooltank: :team:
BOOM . spot on !

We need to size the initiative !
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Post by Waldo » 10 Jul 2011, 22:39

Berget should check how many players are in one unit before they give out missions. The Teams section said that the 320th would be 50 players. We had 30 registered and 29 paid tickets. In fact we were about 23 guys + spin_t, michael and alex. Our missions looked like BE calculated with 50 people. For example it was impossible for us to fulfill our mission to attack the eastern roadblock with 20 people, while there were about 70 NAF guys in the area. An extra problem was that I wasn't able to get contact with HQ or other units to get support ( WE NEED WORKING REPEATERS!!!)

-Also BE should check the current game situation when giving gamemaster orders. It is not nice to drive up to a SP to respawn there and the area is held by the enemy for a longer time...

-Please fix the swamps which started to grow in front of the water containers.

-Refuel the generators for the repeaters!!!

-Change the old tents and get more of these cool new ones.

-I would like to see more missions where 2 or more bats work together. I liked it when we attacked the roadblock together with the 1st....unfortunately we got ripped in an ambush :D

-Cheese on the hamburgers

-And if B10 will be on Härnön again, you have to revisit the ranges of the artillery, so that it is not fixed to certain poitions.


These are my two cents for the moment. :wink:
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B10: 45th Mountaineer Sappers ("Sapperneers") - Wiley 2-2
B11-B13: Serving the country
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Post by spin_t » 11 Jul 2011, 01:53

Let's see :
- No static HQ staff,but clearly good comms.
- No people who r register themselfs on one unit and then r just going where they like.
- No people who r joining a MILSIM game and don't want to walk in order to fullfill the missions.
- No people who r joining a MILSIM game and do not understand that they should obey a given order
- No people whithout basic equipment ( 15 from 23 people from my unit did not have radio )
- No lazy GMHQ ( people waiting from 09:00 till 11:00-12:00 to receive the first order...)
- Banned from the game for not respecting the rules ( like in the real life,not knowing the rules is not an excuse,READ THE RULES ! )
I would like to see also a youtube video with 3-4 people sended home from Berget for not respecting the rules...how many will disobey after ?

So,IMHO i think Berget Crew should impose more stricted rules and also to watch that this rules r respected,if the main goal will be just "as more players=as more money",in 2-3 years the all mighty Berget will become just a crap game,a meeting place for all the Europe airsoft retards ( half of them was already there this year).
If you decide to come to this game,that means you understand what a MILSIM game is and you r ready to act propperly. If not,stay the --- SPAM !!! --- home and leave us play !

Amin !
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Post by Waldo » 11 Jul 2011, 02:05

According the radios: Please BE, Please have reliable businesspartners who are able to deliver ordered radios....I really needed a second one :twisted:
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B10: 45th Mountaineer Sappers ("Sapperneers") - Wiley 2-2
B11-B13: Serving the country
B14: UPIR - Righteous Employee

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