Gameplay & Cheating?

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 11
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spin_t
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by spin_t » 04 Jul 2013, 00:42

Heh !:) I was actually impressed about the way people have taken the hits this year . For some unknown reasons the game was smooth and with no problems,except one incident wich after some toughts i think is worth being mentioned :

friday night,the city is taken by GCT .
returning from respawn i reach the city near the shooting range ,just in time to see a huge number of GCT players starting to leave the city in formation.
being just me and a team mate we decide to hide on the side of the road and wait the enemies to leave sensing that under that adrenaline if we start to fire we will be executed by those 100+ people :)
well...exactly at the time when the head of the formation was at 15 meters from our position fireworks are starting to explode...noise and smoke alover the place.
i take the decision to shoot ,being in a covered position and thinking that the fireworks noise will make my shooting position harder to be detected...:)))
and this is where the shit has begun : i start shooting GCT in the ass while they are moving on the road :)) from the first 8-10 people not even ONE does not stop to take the death rag out ! all are turning,trying to see who is shooting and keep on going in fast pace.
i keep on shooting and the next 5-6 people are doing the same thing :turning to see who is shooting but this time they saw me and...one of them raise the gun and return fire and imediatedly the other 5 are doing the same :)
so,this 5 or 6 guys are executing me with 2-3 seconds full auto and leave like the rest.
i must admit at that point i saw green in front of my eyes,get totally out of calm,control and other similar things ( especially being shot only in the face and hands by the wonder dudes ),get out from my hideout and start cursing and shouting at the running guys.
and like this was not enough,a chubby GCT commander of some rank is popping in front of me and start screaming "calm down"," calm down" and with every "calm down" is giving me a strong push in the chest ...yeap,the best way to calm somebody down !
my tension continues to raise up to boiling point,i try to explain to the "calm down"-push guy what was happening and then ...from nowhere a second GCT commander (it was you Judgement Day ?)is in front of me saying "you know what: i will report you for violence !"
I did not know at that point if i should laugh or get more nervous and i decided to leave ( of course,with some regards for the mothers in my native language ).
but the second commander was so decided to charge me that he's grabbing me by the vest and asking my armband number ( placed on the right place,on my arm,with the numbers visible ).
i exchange armband numbers with the guy and leave.

A funny story ? at this point yes,not so much back then...adrenaline from the guys who shoot me being already dead ? for sure,it happends.
But regarding this 2 muppets ...sry,commanders : read with care where your authority starts and ends ! you could report who and what you like,everybody can,but at least in Sweden pushing and restricting the movement is a matter of real Police and i don't think your airsoft rank will change anything about this.
Not to mention the way you have judge the problem...
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JudgementDay
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by JudgementDay » 04 Jul 2013, 07:43

I am sorry to hear this account.
I was not on the scene during the incident, because I was as usual restricting my movement to our main base for (ingame) "security reasons". Right now I wish I had been there.

I have to say that you took it well if you thought it "funny" then and there, because you are totally right - physical contact (unless "in-game"/LARP and agreed on by both players) is where it crosses the line. I can still see why the commanders reacted that way, meeting an enraged enemy player (from their point of view), but I wish they had tried a different approach to actually calm you down and listen to your claims instead.

While Commanders may have a sort of trustee authority in the game when there is no GM available, this is overshadowed by our responsibility as commanders to help ensure fair play without off-game clashes between players - we're mediators more than judges.

Personally, I can only appeal to every player: If you feel that you have been wronged (shot at despite hitrag, enemy not taking hits, whatever the cause), take a moment and talk to (not shout at) the other player in question. You can always go off-game for such matters, and if you feel that you are too angry for a reasonable talk at that moment, appeal to a GM or another player (including commanders) as a mediator.
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Yams » 04 Jul 2013, 11:10

As the chubby GCT guy I'd like to put my side forward and just leave the issue lie.

There was no pushing or shoving on my part, my arms were out to try and guide you to the side of the path to try and have a reasonasble discussion, rather than the shouting match you were engaged in, in the centre of the retreating gct troops.

I was trying to understand what had happened and say I would do something about it (would at least try). When you slapped my arm out of the way was when the other guy on the scene decided to take your armband number, and as then you just wanted to leave and wouldnt tell us the number he did catch hold of your arm to see what it was.

The incident was the worst display of behaviour I had seen, but then I knew exactly where it was coming from, was a heat of the moment thing and that you would have regretted it afterwards.

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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by NIN » 04 Jul 2013, 12:13

It is never acceptable to shout at another player, it is not tolerated to shove other players if its not LARPING. All player are obligated to give their armbandnumber to whomever asks for it.

If anyone has a disagrement with another player go offgame and talk it out like adults. If you cant come to an agrement go see a GM, or call BE-HQ and we will send one to your location.

All major transgressions need to be reported to BE-HQ or GM so we can weed out any players who cant behave themselves. I did not hear about this situation during the game so it could not have been reported.
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Robin-Hood » 04 Jul 2013, 12:36

spin_t wrote:get out from my hideout and start cursing and shouting at the running guys.
and like this was not enough,a chubby GCT commander of some rank is popping in front of me and start screaming "calm down"," calm down" and with every "calm down" is giving me a strong push in the chest ...yeap,the best way to calm somebody down !

my tension continues to raise up to boiling point,i try to explain to the "calm down"-push guy what was happening and then ...from nowhere a second GCT commander (it was you Judgement Day ?)is in front of me saying "you know what: i will report you for violence !"

I did not know at that point if i should laugh or get more nervous and i decided to leave ( of course,with some regards for the mothers in my native language ).
but the second commander was so decided to charge me that he's grabbing me by the vest and asking my armband number ( placed on the right place,on my arm,with the numbers visible ).
i exchange armband numbers with the guy and leave.

A funny story ? at this point yes,not so much back then...adrenaline from the guys who shoot me being already dead ? for sure,it happends.
But regarding this 2 muppets ...sry,commanders : read with care where your authority starts and ends ! you could report who and what you like,everybody can,but at least in Sweden pushing and restricting the movement is a matter of real Police and i don't think your airsoft rank will change anything about this.
Not to mention the way you have judge the problem...
You were hiding in a bush ambushing about 200 guys by yourself...

Then when you got lit up (which was inevitable) you came screaming out of the bushes shouting, cussing & being very aggressive. Myself & my Platoon Leader (Yams) witnessed this from down the road with a clear view of what happened and went off game to try to talk to you. When simply told to calm down and discuss what we saw happen to resolve the issue you escalated and became more angry and aggressive. We raised the possibility of getting a Berget game master to talk with and you got more and more angry, you started swearing and it was you who initiated physical contact. At which point I decided you had overstepped and it was me (not yams) who asked you for your armband number, your arm band was upside down (only red showing) as I clearly remember you refusing to give us your arm band number and having to turn it over to find the number. You have mine too I told it to you willingly. I also put my hand out to keep you at arms length because you were very hostile and I did not want things to escalate further, I most certainly did not grab or restrain you, the only thing I did was attempt to turn your armband before you left. Otherwise simply keeping you at a distance from my person. After which you left in a huff as you say swearing at us etc. The thing you obviously failed to notice was our team medic running up and beginning to heal guys. :wank:

Immediately on our return to camp your armband number was reported with our team commander who said he would bring it to Berget crew, and any action left up to the Berget crew. If they wish to discuss the issue then I am more than happy to.

I really hope myself or one of my friends got the incident on our helmet cams because your behavior was absolutely unacceptable, unprofessional and unnecessary. It was one of the poorest shows of behavior I have seen in about a decade of airsofting, especially from such a veteran airsofter let alone a man of your age. But regardless there are plenty of witnesses which I'm certain will attest to this.
NIN wrote:All major transgressions need to be reported to BE-HQ or GM so we can weed out any players who cant behave themselves. I did not hear about this situation during the game so it could not have been reported.
We reported it to the GCT SIDU commander who wrote it down and said he would bring it to the crew, as we were unable to find any berget crew members at the time (something like 4am once we returned to camp)
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  • Berget 9 - Poldavian
    Berget 10 - Poldavian
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spin_t
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by spin_t » 04 Jul 2013, 14:23

Yeah,i think from the dawn of airsoft you never saw somebody shouting...:))
I really don't want to make this a 3 pages discussion here,i have my share of guilt on this but still don't torn it as i was some kind of danger for society.
IF your guys in the end took the hits,this was after walking 100 meters from where they where hit.
And none of you didn't give a s..t about what i was telling you in order to try to understand the problem.
Whatever ! I see this now just as a hot moment of the game ,the end !
But i will not apologize for screaming at some people who are not taking the hits,even if is the most horrific thing you saw in airsoft :))
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by NIN » 04 Jul 2013, 15:50

Take the rest of this diskussion over PM, if there is a film send me your skype info and ill have a look at it.
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by spin_t » 04 Jul 2013, 17:31

Nothing more to say mate,case close.
Looking at the team Fbook page i see they have a history of arguing and ending the discussion with pushing people so...totally done with this !:)
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Robin-Hood » 04 Jul 2013, 20:21

spin_t wrote:Nothing more to say mate,case close.
Looking at the team Fbook page i see they have a history of arguing and ending the discussion with pushing people so...totally done with this !:)
Which team page are you referring to?

Our unit is not one team, just a rag tag bunch who all go to Berget... So it's pretty clear you're just trying to bad mouth us.

If you mean my team (Scimitar Milsim) then I would love to know where on earth you managed to find something like that, because it most certainly was not on our team page.
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  • Berget 9 - Poldavian
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by 22-Apollo » 05 Jul 2013, 04:04

Since when is pointing a fully loaded AEG into off game tents allowed?

Woke up at 9AM on Saturday in the GCT base with shooting and shouting, and someone pointed their weapon into our tent and asked if anyone was inside. I answered "Yes", and he said "You're all dead. No respawn in 1 hour."

Of course, I didn't care because I was off-game during that little raid by the Ravens, but clearly pointing guns at people with no safetyglasses and making up respawn rules? GM had to come to the base and tell everyone that respawns were still every half hour.


But hey, apart from all that, B11 was a blast!

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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Pat_D » 05 Jul 2013, 08:37

22-Apollo wrote:Since when is pointing a fully loaded AEG into off game tents allowed?

Woke up at 9AM on Saturday in the GCT base with shooting and shouting, and someone pointed their weapon into our tent and asked if anyone was inside. I answered "Yes", and he said "You're all dead. No respawn in 1 hour."

Of course, I didn't care because I was off-game during that little raid by the Ravens, but clearly pointing guns at people with no safetyglasses and making up respawn rules? GM had to come to the base and tell everyone that respawns were still every half hour.


But hey, apart from all that, B11 was a blast!

That's why Berget rules tell to wear the safety glasses at all time when your stay in Base. 8)
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by alecu » 05 Jul 2013, 09:07

Pat_D wrote:
22-Apollo wrote:Since when is pointing a fully loaded AEG into off game tents allowed?

Woke up at 9AM on Saturday in the GCT base with shooting and shouting, and someone pointed their weapon into our tent and asked if anyone was inside. I answered "Yes", and he said "You're all dead. No respawn in 1 hour."

Of course, I didn't care because I was off-game during that little raid by the Ravens, but clearly pointing guns at people with no safetyglasses and making up respawn rules? GM had to come to the base and tell everyone that respawns were still every half hour.


But hey, apart from all that, B11 was a blast!

That's why Berget rules tell to wear the safety glasses at all time when your stay in Base. 8)
And mister , that is why berget rules TELL that tents are off game area? Dont ?
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Rhyn0 » 05 Jul 2013, 10:14

One case of CLEAR cheating that we saw.
My team of 8 was behind enemy lines on Friday and we managed to get to the road from the civilian village to the civilian toilets ( the mud road) undetected ( except by the Captain and regretably we had to shoot him because he was making too much fuss about it).
We set up an ambush on the raven base side of the road and waited for victims. we shot a few people, cause some havoc etc.
Then, at one point, our scout tells us of 3 DEAD reds coming from toilets to civilian village. We hunker down to let them pass, but RIGHT in front of our kill zone they stop, get into the bushes on OUR side of the road (10-15 meters from 5 of our guys, and they take off their dead rags). we shoot 2 of them them, the third shoots back and hits one of our guys.. After a couple of minutes of silence, the third guy puts his dead rag back on and comes near the other guys, claiming that noone from them shot( there was noone else in the area).. and then we confront them about what they did. They gave us a story about getting in the bushes to pee or take a crap, and thats why they took off their dead rags , but not their hats, because apparently they can;t crap with their dead rags on, but have no problem crapping 3 meters one from the other.
It was a pretty clear case of "magic respawn", and it was their bad luck that they did it LITERALLY IN OUR FACES. 15 meters down or up the road and we wouldn;t have seen them because of the heavy vegetation.
We took armband ID's but after one of them somehow said something along the lines " We did something wrong and we're sorry for it" we decided to let the issue pass, hopefully we shamed them enough so they don't repeat this issue in the future. If they do, it's their loss.

Otherwise, hit taking seemed normal for Berget, in the first days everything fine, then in big firefights and the closer it gets to game end it takes more and more BB's to get a HIT and a death rag waving, but by now that's pretty standard.

On our first berget. 5 years ago, a veteran told us the recipe for having fun at Berget:
"Take your hits, and shoot until ORANGE. Don't get mad if someone else does it to you as well"
We still think it's the best advice anyone ever gave us regarding airsoft.
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by freno » 05 Jul 2013, 18:43

Rhyn0 wrote:"Take your hits, and shoot until ORANGE. Don't get mad if someone else does it to you as well".
This is one of the best word i´ve ever heard!!
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Re: Gameplay & Cheating?

Post by Robin-Hood » 06 Jul 2013, 01:26

Rhyn0 wrote: On our first berget. 5 years ago, a veteran told us the recipe for having fun at Berget:
"Take your hits, and shoot until ORANGE. Don't get mad if someone else does it to you as well"
We still think it's the best advice anyone ever gave us regarding airsoft.
Yep absolutely, I have used this theory pretty much my whole airsoft career.
If they don't call it yet, shoot more. Only time you should begin to complain is say putting a whole mid cap into someone at 10 metres in CQB then they are actively & blatantly cheating. :D

also

"y u heff to be mad, it's only game"
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Berget History:
  • Berget 9 - Poldavian
    Berget 10 - Poldavian
    Berget 11 - GCT Taskforce

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