BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 12
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grasulas
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by grasulas » 04 Jul 2014, 20:26

[quote="B2fox"......

1. Four “Alive” LED’s in green or blue, that shows the BAVS receiver is on. This will eliminate the accusations of disconnection. )And yes, this may give away a camouflaged viechle, but since they are mostly visible on the roads, I don’t see a major issue, with that.)

..........[/quote]

Supporting this idea 110%, we had problems with some cars who forgot to connect the battery to the BAV or had some "connection problems"...
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Genocide
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Genocide » 04 Jul 2014, 21:22

I think informing the players of how the bavs even works when mounting is a good start. A few guys i met had no idea they needed to reconnect the battery after taking the last hit.

I still dont belive that the receiver is the biggest problem.
Yes they may be made of plastic cups and plates. But they work.

The main issue is the frequency of the lightbeam BAVS uses. Its to weak. In daylight or light from some cars its utter shit. Majorly reduces the working range.

The at4 we received was utter fail...untill i lined up the light woth the tube. It was so off that the only thing i was bavsing was the woods :P
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by B2fox » 04 Jul 2014, 21:46

Genocide wrote:
I still dont belive that the receiver is the biggest problem.
Yes they may be made of plastic cups and plates. But they work.

The main issue is the frequency of the lightbeam BAVS uses. Its to weak. In daylight or light from some cars its utter shit. Majorly reduces the working range.
I fully agree !
The BAVS system works, with the limitations, it has got.
But the recievers MUST be visible/hittable from all angles.
The ranges are, as Genocide states, at best dodgy....

Maybee a laser beam, aimed at a larger target, on the viechle, is the way to go ?
(I know this means that a BAVS V3.0 will need to be developed)

And still.....
It's all about fairplay !
Take your hits, don't cover your BAVS, and give your opponents, and the LARP'ers one hell of a week :)
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Jakobsson [g.b.m] » 05 Jul 2014, 09:01

When you are in range to hit the bavs it goes very fast to destroy a car, the 40mm has got max 7 sec before you can shot again.

We had the same problem with our 40mm to hit cars in daylight, max 5m range.
Its not about "or light from some cars".

Its not possible to mount the receiver 2m over the car so it will be visible/hittable from all angles.
We are playing i forest land, there are trees..

The bavs doesnt make a sound when fire, you have no chance in the car to gues where the shoot came from.

Its not fair play if its possible to take out a car in a hidden position 200m away not making a sound!


And if you think about it, you would never attack a "tank" or some other apc in the front, right?
Get around the "car" and place the shoot from behind or in the side, if you call your selfe a ranger, you should be able to move a couple of yards.. Still, the game wouldt be fun if its not a challenge.

:cooltank:

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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by alecu » 05 Jul 2014, 09:56

An m203 in action, i think it dies not make to much of a sound

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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Jakobsson [g.b.m] » 05 Jul 2014, 11:28

No, but if we are talking rs..there are not a lot of 40mm capable of penetreting a "APC" for example.

Still, if its a fair play you want..its not silence armoured penetreting greneades.

Live AT4:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nevkPQ3XUSM

Still not much of a sound?

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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by alecu » 05 Jul 2014, 16:21

The thing that you need to think about it from the airsoft perspective. How loud are the rifles? What its actually range of them, bbs are not penetrating doors of car, now take the difference betwen the rs and airsoft.

Tha bav system its good but maybe they just need to improve the lenses, way of placing them on cars, and somehow a verifing system that bav receiver its on. Really i had 4 bavs and for 2 days we could not do anything with none of them from 4 sides of a car from 10 meters. One of them had his bav recevier off, but other would not work at a bigger distance of 4-5 meters. Pretty frustrating having all those bavs and could not disable the cars.

We had an ambush at the T intersaction tyat went from border to raven left and up to the orlovs and for 2 hours cars passed and none of us got an car hit...

I think berget, comp commanders of mech units or just luck ,did something on friday morning because we started to do some damage to cars by friday afternoon
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Jakobsson [g.b.m] » 05 Jul 2014, 18:55

A airsoft rifle is loud enough to hear where you are shooting from, the most of them..

In Berget all cars are "bullet proof", or considered to be armoured.

You are talking about a fair play and a fair game, I dont think is fair if you could destroy a car from 200m without a sound.
And I dont think it will improve the game experience or the fun, and if its to easy to destroy cars..no one will bring them.

I agree that Bavs have to be improved.
Not allways the placement, infantary can and should move to get a clean shoot.
If a car is level 3 or higher, it should not be possible to destroy in the front anyway.

But a led that tells you if the system is on and around 25-30m range för the 40mm, around 50m for AT4 in daylight and the same in the night. And some sound system the makes a higher "bip".


If you have problems with a ambush, just put some mines on the roud.. problem solved.

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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by alecu » 05 Jul 2014, 20:00

I dont know where you got the message that i would like 200 meters range on the bav. Its the oposite :)

What i would like to have its at least 15-20 meters . At briefing it was advertised as 50m by day and 100 meters by night :D
I think if the dude who helped us in getting them would have cut the Zero oit he would be more precise :)
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Coffe » 08 Jul 2014, 12:29

Panzergraf wrote:
Coffe wrote:Also, I don't see the problem of having the recievers located up high. (at least 1m above the talles point of the vehicle)
I do.
Some of the roads have over-hanging branches, these would damage or break off the receiver.
When engaging a vehicle from within the forest, the canopy might hide the receiver.
Having the receiver too high up would create more problems than it would solve.

Just above the turret (or just above the roof, if it's a non-turreted vehicle) will suffice.
As long as it's visible from 360 degrees from most combat ranges, it's good.

You mention real life anti tank weapons;
Most of these need a certain distance for the warhead to arm. I'm not sure about the AT4, but if I recall correctly 40mm grenades arm themselves after 18 meters. Not scoring a hit on the receiver when firing a 40mm from 5m prone is not unrealistic, IMHO.

A simulation system like BAVS, or even the laser-sim systems used by real armies, will never be 100% accurate representations of real weapon capabilities.
But simply moving the BAVS receivers to the top of the turret will vastly improve gameplay.
The recievers don't reliabky register hits on ranges over 18 meters, so your real life example seems kind of moot, unless the goal is to make 40 mm BAVS grenades utterly pointless.

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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Coffe » 08 Jul 2014, 12:33

B2fox wrote:
Genocide wrote:
I still dont belive that the receiver is the biggest problem.
Yes they may be made of plastic cups and plates. But they work.

The main issue is the frequency of the lightbeam BAVS uses. Its to weak. In daylight or light from some cars its utter shit. Majorly reduces the working range.
I fully agree !
The BAVS system works, with the limitations, it has got.
But the recievers MUST be visible/hittable from all angles.
The ranges are, as Genocide states, at best dodgy....

Maybee a laser beam, aimed at a larger target, on the viechle, is the way to go ?
(I know this means that a BAVS V3.0 will need to be developed)

And still.....
It's all about fairplay !
Take your hits, don't cover your BAVS, and give your opponents, and the LARP'ers one hell of a week :)
Preferably a visible laser beam. It's kind of hard to calibrate the sights of your launchers when you have to work with an invisible beam. -.-

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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Mark Karmann » 08 Jul 2014, 12:52

Coffe wrote: Preferably a visible laser beam. It's kind of hard to calibrate the sights of your launchers when you have to work with an invisible beam. -.-
Lasers an Eye's do not mix. Most saftyglases worn by players do not protect against lasers visible or invisible.
For me this would be a big safty issue :!:
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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Coffe » 08 Jul 2014, 13:10

Mark Karmann wrote:
Coffe wrote: Preferably a visible laser beam. It's kind of hard to calibrate the sights of your launchers when you have to work with an invisible beam. -.-
Lasers an Eye's do not mix. Most saftyglases worn by players do not protect against lasers visible or invisible.
For me this would be a big safty issue :!:
Depends on the class of the laser. 1-2 are harmless, 2 will at most make you blink.

It's 3R and upwards (that require permits to use in Sweden nowadays) that might be harmful.

Also, the system doesn't need to be designed to rely on a continous laser beam in order to help in sight calibration. A 1 second pulse would be useful enough, and at that short exposure not even 3R is likely to damage someones vision if accidentally hit in the eye (which in itself is unlikely since you're not trying to hit the crew of a vehicle but a reciever on the roof of the vehicle)

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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Panzergraf » 09 Jul 2014, 04:21

Coffe wrote:The recievers don't reliabky register hits on ranges over 18 meters, so your real life example seems kind of moot, unless the goal is to make 40 mm BAVS grenades utterly pointless.
The receivers reliably register AT-4 hits out to ~50m in daylight (further at night).
The 40mm BAVS has a shorter range, but then again it's supposed to be a last ditch defence against vehicles, not a truly effective anti vehicle weapon like the AT-4.

A BAVS receiver mounted just above the turret of a vehicle would be visible at close range too, unless you're prone within 3-5m of the vehicle. Having that kind of minimum range is pretty reasonable.
Players shouldn't be crawling around on the ground too close to in-game vehicles anyway, that stuff is pretty dangerous.

The "cone of fire" from those grenades means you don't really need your sights to be that accurate anyway, so adding more stuff to them isn't needed. It will just make BAVS-systems more expensive (and even less reliable).

As it is, the BAVS is a pretty simple system, and not too expensive for what it is.
A simple fix, like mounting the receivers so they're not hidden behind vehicle turrets, will improve it vastly.

Making BAVS more complicated, trying to make it the perfect anti vehicle system, is not the way to go IMHO. It will just end up being bloated, expensive and less reliable.

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Re: BAVS feedback, suggestions & problems

Post by Berget-events » 09 Jul 2014, 08:55

Thanks for the feedback, more ideas and suggestions are welcome!!!

One thing for sure is that is coming in the new version is the BAVS receiver "KIA" sound / blink. After a Vehicle has 0 HP and are killed. The BAVS receiver will do a special sound every 15 seconds like "bib, bib, bib" and then flash the red LED lights in a certain pulse.

This will make sure opposing forces will know that a vehicle is out.

There will also be a way to see if the Bavs is turned on or disconnected from the outside of the car.
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