Civilian special respawn rules

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matte_wo
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Civilian special respawn rules

Post by matte_wo » 13 Jun 2015, 22:16

This info can be found under "civilian info summary" as well, but it is worth a reminder...

Civilian respawn, special rules
Civilian players does not respawn. Instead, special rules apply (see below).

If a civilian player is hit and bleed out, the player’s character is considered dead, and the
player requires Resetting. All intrigues, missions and gathered information is forfeited,
and the player has to start over with a new character. Civilian players whose characters
are killed are to proceed to Main Safe and make contact with GM’s.

A civilian that is hit shouts “HIT” and pulls out his/her orange dead rag, lies down on the
ground and stays in that location. A civilian can also be hit by LARP weapons, like
clubs, bats, hatches, pipes and such. A hit player can always be moved/dragged to
safety by another player.

NOTE! HITs by LARP weapons only apply to civilians, and LARP players armed with
LARP weapons. A civilian character cannot be knife-killed!

When wounded, civilian bleed out time is 30 min (compared to the ordinary 10 min). A
medic, doctor or any civilian with a bandage, can Stabilize the wounded civilian, by
applying a bandage (which takes 2 min as usual). A wounded but stabilized civilian
may crawl on hands and knees
. If not stabilized within 30 min, the character dies.

NOTE! Civilian players can carry a maximum of 2 bandages.
NOTE! Ordinary civilians cannot heal military players, but can give their bandage to a
medic.

When stabilized, the wounded civilian need Treatment within 60 minutes. Treatment
can only be initialized by a medic or a doctor, with the right equipment: 1x IV-bag, 1x
Bandage, and 1x syringe. Treatment takes 1 hour. The civilian receiving treatment must
stay lying down in one location (preferably the civilian hospital, or a field hospital, or in
the back of a vehicle). If treatment is not started within 60 min from stabilization, the
character dies.

NOTE! For treatment, only BE props are allowed.

After 1 hour of treatment, the player is considered treated, fully restored, and can
continue playing.

During night time (0300H-0900H), all civilians that are hit are to go off game immediately,
return to their sleeping area, and start treatment at the civilian hospital at 0900H.

The village if OFF-game 0300H-0900H

(example: Piotr is hit by a stray bullet during a hunting trip. His good friend Ramanov has a bandage, and stabilizes him within 25 min. Then Ramanov is hit as well. Piotr starts to crawl back to the village hospital, to seek treatment. After 20 min, a member of Hades Police, finds him, and helps him walk back to Krasnovo which takes 35 min. Piotr is in luck, the doctor is in, and he has the requierd medical supplies. Treatment is started, and Piotr rests for 60 min. He is then fully recovered. Piotrs friend Ramanov was also in luck. A GCT medic could stabilize him wihtin 15 min. After another 35 min, GCT forces are able to help the civilian back to a secure location, where a medic with the right resources, starts teatment. Ramanov rests for 60 min, and is then fully recovered)
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JudgementDay
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by JudgementDay » 15 Jun 2015, 13:18

matte_wo wrote:A civilian character cannot be knife-killed!
This may need clarification. Does that mean civilians are "immune" to knife-kills (possibly even while they are still able to deal knife-kills)?

I don't really expect the situation to arise, but what if a sneaky commando soldier player needs to get by a place watched by a civilian, and both a) shooting the civilian or b) knocking him unconscious would raise alarm too quickly (because even the k.o.-ed civilian would wake up 5 minutes later again)? I know there are several other (including LARP-oriented) solutions to this situation, but the knife-kill is a central sneaking element, and might, if unavailable, reduce the number of options drastically.

Or is this simply referring to the part of the knife-kill where the "killed" does not get a bleedout (because the "instant-kill, no bleedout, no chance of saving" thing is admittedly too harsh on a LARP persona, especially if people do this mindlessly all over the place)? I could imagine that the knife-kill still forbids the downed player from shouting "hit" (thus alerting everyone near and far), but civilians get a bleedout timer + stabilization + treatment etc. nontheless.

P.S.: Might also well mean that a civilian may be knife-killed, but his character will not go through the die+reset thing then... As I said, may need clarification. :oops:
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Arradin
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by Arradin » 15 Jun 2015, 13:41

JudgementDay wrote:
matte_wo wrote:A civilian character cannot be knife-killed!
This may need clarification. Does that mean civilians are "immune" to knife-kills (possibly even while they are still able to deal knife-kills)?

I don't really expect the situation to arise, but what if a sneaky commando soldier player needs to get by a place watched by a civilian, and both a) shooting the civilian or b) knocking him unconscious would raise alarm too quickly (because even the k.o.-ed civilian would wake up 5 minutes later again)? I know there are several other (including LARP-oriented) solutions to this situation, but the knife-kill is a central sneaking element, and might, if unavailable, reduce the number of options drastically.

Or is this simply referring to the part of the knife-kill where the "killed" does not get a bleedout (because the "instant-kill, no bleedout, no chance of saving" thing is admittedly too harsh on a LARP persona, especially if people do this mindlessly all over the place)? I could imagine that the knife-kill still forbids the downed player from shouting "hit" (thus alerting everyone near and far), but civilians get a bleedout timer + stabilization + treatment etc. nontheless.

P.S.: Might also well mean that a civilian may be knife-killed, but his character will not go through the die+reset thing then... As I said, may need clarification. :oops:
As i know that YOU know ( but maybe not others reading this ) , a Knife kills means that someone is instantly dead and cannot be healed. Civilians don't follow these rules, because when a Civilian dies, that character dies, and most of us have spent ALOT of time into these characters, and if someone were to walk up to me and kill me instantly, i would be very very upset...

Civilians already have what you already mentioned as "knockout" which has EXACTLY the same effect as a knife kill has to Military players, where a person must remain silent and cannot be healed, the only difference is that after the timer is up, a Civilian is awake ( but didnt remember anything from the knockout period )

All Cilvilians are LARP, and what you suggest makes NO sense in a LARP point of view ( getting knife killed, but not really. You just act as you are, but then you can get healed and treated anyhow )

I think you forget one very important thing, and that is that knocked out civilians dont remember what happened.
So if you walk up to me and knock me out, i will awaken 5 minutes later, but no idea what happened.

Now, i don't expect 85% of the players to know about this " no Civilian knife kill " rule, so if someone walk up to me and "knifekill " me, i will treat is as im knocked out ( and explain this to the player )

Bottom line, there is no reason for you EVER to knifekill a Civilian. Knock me out and drag me away from there ( Not literally drag, but tell me im knocked out and ask me to follow you quietly, you can even tell me in locked into one of the rooms in a house.

Eh, Too long; Didnt read version:
- A Civilian cannot be instantly knife killed , but you can use "knockout" instead of "knifekill" and it works EXACTLY the same... We just don't die.
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JudgementDay
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by JudgementDay » 15 Jun 2015, 19:14

I mostly agree with you, but allow me to play advocatus diaboli once more:

The knock-out timer has 5 minutes.
The knife-kill timer has 10 minutes, plus afterwards you have to return to respawn (time spent walking) and add the respawn timer (1-30 minutes, depending on time of arrival). Additionally, the downed player not only has no knowledge of his "downtime", but also anything that has happened before (from the very start of his last spawned "life"). 5 minutes is not a lot for sneaking around undetected.

This is all how it works for soldiers. Again, I completely agree that this simple one-hit termination of an entire existence is counter-productive for a LARP role that was spent quite some time, consideration and work on. I am also quite certain that the situation in which a knife kill is actually "better" than any other option (including the LARP option of threatening the civilian, or bribing him, or lots of other things), may not even arise in the game.

I agree that a thoughtless knife-kill should be "lessened" if the situation doesn't definitely demand the added benefits/side effects (like you described making it a knockout instead). Yet again, simply taking away the option without equal alternative might well ruin an otherwise great approach that a player might've spent a lot of time on, too.

tl;dr: I don't mind "losing" the killing part - just the time advantage it gives you.
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by M.Koho » 16 Jun 2015, 19:44

Why not to just make civilians get wounded (and silent) for a respawn time from a knife kill? I understand that in a normal situation there should be no reason to kill civilians (silently by knife) but if needed, I'd like to have that tool on my bag.

OR maybe we need to knockout civilians, tie and cag 'em up and hope they LARP accordingly?
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by Arradin » 16 Jun 2015, 22:01

M.Koho wrote: OR maybe we need to knockout civilians, tie and cag 'em up and hope they LARP accordingly?
Yes, exactly. thank you.

There will be NO reason for you to kill Civilians.
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matte_wo
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by matte_wo » 16 Jun 2015, 22:59

Judgementday: You have a good point, but we will try this this year. The most silent way is to knock, and tie and gag (either for real or simulate), and I am 99% sure that our civilians this year will LARP accordingly!
Matte-Wo AKA Vestin

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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by JudgementDay » 17 Jun 2015, 07:28

a'ight, boss. I'll try to spread it among the soldiers.
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by Keea » 17 Jun 2015, 13:31

Imo in a capture situation, one should agree with the civilian whether they prefer to be tied, gagged etc for real or only inside LARP. If done for real, escaping from the binds by theirself or with help would simulate actual escape or at least grant them the opportunity to try. In this case they would be able to try to communicate despite having a possible gag/mouth tape. On the other hand, if the civilian doesn't want to be tied for real, then they need to adhere to the silence and knockout rules and won't be able to escape until "given permission" or being LARP freed by another player.

Personally I guess I'd classify myself as a hardcore LARPer, which to me means I prefer not to simulate things but rather do or have things done for real, doesn't really matter what it is (physical or emotional conflict). Obviously in general things should always remain consensual and common sense must be applied.

I heard there used to be a way to separate hc LARPers from casual ones via some kind of ribbon or similar. Any chances of this still happening for Berget 13?
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by Arradin » 17 Jun 2015, 17:50

Keea wrote:Imo in a capture situation, one should agree with the civilian whether they prefer to be tied, gagged etc for real or only inside LARP. If done for real, escaping from the binds by theirself or with help would simulate actual escape or at least grant them the opportunity to try. In this case they would be able to try to communicate despite having a possible gag/mouth tape. On the other hand, if the civilian doesn't want to be tied for real, then they need to adhere to the silence and knockout rules and won't be able to escape until "given permission" or being LARP freed by another player.

Personally I guess I'd classify myself as a hardcore LARPer, which to me means I prefer not to simulate things but rather do or have things done for real, doesn't really matter what it is (physical or emotional conflict). Obviously in general things should always remain consensual and common sense must be applied.

I heard there used to be a way to separate hc LARPers from casual ones via some kind of ribbon or similar. Any chances of this still happening for Berget 13?
Agree 100%

When Civilians are pure civilians , like this year, its almost guaranteed that everyone of us will be LARPers on either level, and other players dont have to worry about us "breaking rules"
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by matte_wo » 17 Jun 2015, 19:45

Good point Keea! The HC LARP ribbon is a great idea, but we will not be able to get the information out to everyone in time for this year I belive... If this years civilian concept proves to be a success, we can continue to improve it next year with things like the HC LARP Ribbon and the special-knife-kill-idea from Judgementday.
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Re: Civilian special respawn rules

Post by Keea » 17 Jun 2015, 20:38

Yeah, I understand that. While it would be nice if it was an organised and informed thing, I think even a small personal indicator, like a selfmade specific colored ribbon would work. Maybe people can bring their own if they want / are knowledgeable about it (honestly, a mass email might just do the trick...). Colored ribbon is cheap and easy to buy anywhere. It'd have to be any other color than red or blue to avoid confusion though? It's also something that can easily be given or spread ingame or sold before game start at the safe zone. Just an idea anyhow!
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B13: Civilian + GCT Rangers - Saeek Ashâ (flower girl) AKA Sasha Keea

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