GENERAL FEEDBACK

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 14
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Losolos
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Losolos » 11 Jul 2016, 08:51

Perhaps next year you need to be more involved with the HQ operation, because then you might realise that most staff was operating 20 hours a day, with a constant stream of information flowing in, constant challenges to resolve. It was totally intense at times, and very rarely did any of us get a break. I'm not looking for a medal, but players need to know that when they come in to HQ, then maybe the person you speak to has a dozen things they are dealing with at the same time, and they are not able to give you the attention you look for.
i realise .. and i was involved the last 10 years since B5 on 8) .. so i think i can give a realistic feedback !

It was really the way HQ handle people that come with questions an intel .. your young Intel officer with no safety googles i talked 4 times then he "said wait i check" .. i waited every time 1h and he disapperad somewhere !
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by wormbyte » 11 Jul 2016, 13:56

Well your observations and feedback is valuable and important to us Losolos, and I will certainly be adding that to my lessons learnt list.

Thanks :D
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Windi^ » 11 Jul 2016, 14:54

Losolos wrote:
i realise .. and i was involved the last 10 years since B5 on 8) .. so i think i can give a realistic feedback !

It was really the way HQ handle people that come with questions an intel .. your young Intel officer with no safety googles i talked 4 times then he "said wait i check" .. i waited every time 1h and he disapperad somewhere !
But you weren't involved this year, so you can't have any idea about the HQ. It was totally different game than B5, with different amount of people, different agendas etc.

He might have disappeared to the actual HQ... I agree, he should have come back to tell you that this irrelevant or something. I can't say if you mean me, because I have no recollection of this kind of discussion. And I wore my glasses whole came for what it's worth.

To me, you are not giving any actual feedback, you just feel bad since you are feeling neglected due your information being irrelevant or what not. It's life, better luck next time, get over it. It doesn't make the HQ bad if your stuff wasn't included in the actions. All and all I would say that we did well to get our troops utilized, moved to correct places and accomplished most of our missions. Some LARP elements just had to be discarded and there was nothing we could have done differently.
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Mace » 11 Jul 2016, 18:20

Reading the feedback, and for real i get i bit consernd about players going in to other players tents!
Tbh, in sweden not even the police are aloud to enter your tent without a warrent! Neither are any airsoft player or whom ever.
By Swedish law my tent is equalant to my home. So you should really not go in to any closed tent without checking with the tents inhabitants.
Its pretty easy to get your self in trouble if you are in some one elses tent, nomather if its empty or some one is sleeping.

Its pretty easy, you have nothing to do in some one elses tent, and will probly end upp on the lossing side i a law suit about planing to steel somthing orsome other heinus crime you migth be accused of if found in the wrong persons tent.

With this said.
Berget should do a better jobb with stating local laws to ppl coming to there games. Both with "tältfrid/hemfrid" and with laws regarding lasers etc. I hade a series off happenings where some one tryed to point a green laser to me (gunner) and my drivers eyes. Trying to blinf us. Berget managed to sort this out pretty fast. But it should be clear to players what locla law says in these situations and a few more. Such as the Swedish "knifelaw".

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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by pekezu » 11 Jul 2016, 21:38

WARNING! This is a wall of text. If you don’t bother to read, there will be tl;dr section down under with pros and cons.



First of all big thanks for BE, all the participants, my team mates and especially Arradin. I had my first Berget experience and have to say it was better than I thought it would be. 



I had a chance to play civilian in the village and same time provide intel for my team mates. My role wasn’t that huge in the village but I consider that the intel I provided was useful and that way I consider my ”mission” to be quite successful. As mentioned before there was NO super secret special agents in the village so yes I couldn’t stab kill people in random, couldn’t plant dynamite by my own and couldn’t use weapons without changing the armband to yellow which I did only at the very end of game when the situation in the village turned really fiery. The best weapons I had was my phone with camera and my eyes.



To the feedback: I will be listing pros and cons in the end (at the tl;dr part) but first I want to write freely about how I felt about the game. First of all the village of Tamm Valley. Awesome. Pure awesomeness. Of course I was a first timer (and actually the first time playing a larp role) but I was quite impressed about how seriously people took their larp roles in the village. Big hand for the sinecure department guys for making benches, road bumps, all kinds of repair work etc. Also big thanks for Tamm Valley Times. These places made the village alive and it felt more like a real village more than just a prop between two fighting teams who try to use all their power to use the village against the other team. I really enjoyed all the civilian players and the atmosphere of the village. Mostly I had a really good time just hanging around with the people there and trying to figure out what the f*** was going on with about everything.

It’s a shame that I can’t actually point out things that worked extremely well compared to previous events since I don’t have more experience about the events before B14 but take it like this: Everything not mentioned in the list of improvements were at least good enough not to bother me too much.



What I think could be improved? Well let’s start from the treatment of civilians. I know that previous years people have been mistreated by civilian double agents and that way some people are extremely suspicious about the civilians. This year was (afaih) huge improvement for the civs so that they weren’t mistreated and forced to almost slavery. But still some of the soldiers treated civilians bit bad. For example the first night a platoon of UPIR soldiers came to the village and shot around three civilians for no reason at all. Really nice! Give those guys a medal! Oh but the commander of the platoon didn’t speak english so he couldn’t understand why is he getting decorated. IMO if the game language is english then every player should understand and speak it at least so that people can get along without an interpreter. I suggest that this thing should be mentioned very, very clearly in the game rules section. Not only ”The language of this game is english” but that people need to know how to speak and understand it too.



And yeah couple of Finnish soldiers were discussing outside my hut in Finnish that should they shoot me despite the fact that I was not threat to them in any way. Sorry guys but Finnish ain’t elvish in Berget and even some of the larp- guys can understand it fluently. 

;)

The higher the rank the better they treated civilians so I guess that it would be only about informing your soldiers about the civilians and that the better they are treated the better they will treat the soldiers too since despite the fact that the village was really split to pro-NAF and pro-UPIR kinda people quite much everybody played their role and reported about mistreatment from both sides. 

Despite those mishaps the relations between soldiers and civilians seemed to work quite ok.

The village turned to quite a wild west after the first night since the opinion about ”which side is better” seemed to be the topic of the game for whole time. About the whirlwindness of the situation there is a great example from the saturday morning. I went to arm myself since the civilians seemed to be fortifying the church for attack against UPIR. When I got back I was told to shoot the NAF. Well that escalated quickly! I don’t know what kind of situation it was leading to this rapid change of wind but whatever it was it just felt a bit stupid. But what the heck and everyone had at least some fun in the church during the epic showdown. I also liked the tension that those Bikers and Vipers brought to the village although I would have liked very much to see a bit more tension between these two groups.

Bribes. Everyone was bribable. I don’t want to sound boring but IMO it is a tad easy solution if everyone play for the highest bidder. Why spend time in the village trying to get villagers trust if the next guy comes with a pile of in game money and stuffs it into guy’s pocket telling him what to do? I don’t see the village worth of anything if the only move is to go for your teams stash of Berget Dollars and bribing everyone. Especially the cops, you dirty old coppers. I saw you taking the bribes and even asked about it. Not really got a response. I will make sure to mention this to the next mayor so he can get you all fired so that Tamm Valley gets the police force it needs, not the one it deserves! ;D

What comes in my mind from the feedbacks I’ve read is that somehow people seem to have very specific expectations about how the game should be. The next thing I suggest is actually a bit philosophical and it can be transferred to almost anything else in life too.

In my opinion what should be done more is to try to take what the event itself is giving to you instead of comparing it to what you thought the event should be.

Some people have told that they don’t enjoy the LARP factor of Berget. But Berget has had LARP- players in it and afaik will have LARP in it in the future too. You can whine about it or then just eat the humble pie and deal with it. You chose to come to Berget so should it be you who is adapting to the game since the game will probably never adapt to you? This year there was what, around 1600 players in the game. That’s a shit load of people. It is nearly impossible to create a game that would in any matter be 5/5 (salami maistuu) game experience for everybody. Of course everyone is doing their best to make it possibly even 4/5 for most of the players and if there is some big mistakes in the HQ or from BE those things need to be taken seriously. 



Adapting to the game doesn’t mean you couldn’t affect the game. As written here before quite many people think this was the best Berget in many years and they have paid gratitude to their HQ personnel. That means that some people adapted to the situation and to the event and decided to take a bigger role in creating a better game. If you are not taking a role in HQ, platoon leading or squad leading that will lead to a situation where you do not decide what will happen next and that is mostly the MILSIM part of the game. Which some people don’t like either. But then we end up to the same question again: Is this the right game for you?

And some times your platoon just isn’t where the action is. Especially I believe the recon groups had an experiment from this kind of situation that they were every time somewhere else than where the action was. But that’s life you know. Sometimes it just doesn’t go like in the movies. All the units play a role in a bigger picture and maybe taking that capture point without any enemy contacts was the best job to do for your whole team even though you didn’t get to shoot anyone.





TL;DR section



Pros:

- the village atmosphere

- I had shit tons of fun

- the game seemed even and mostly everything went fine

- basic needs such as toilets and water supply did work really nice



Cons:

- some mishaps between soldiers and civilians (nothing superbly large though)

- bribes playing quite a big role in my point of view in the civilian village

- the opinions about blue and red team changing in the matter of seconds especially towards the end making it a bit hard to understand the reasons behind it



After all 4.5/5 game and trip for me. Hope to see you next year and make at least as fine event as this was!
B14 - Civilian
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freno
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by freno » 11 Jul 2016, 22:53

When i read YOUR feedbacks, i wonder if it mostly is about broken expectations. Most cons is comming back, year after year without possibillities for the Bergetcrew to change. There was many great changes this year, and a few bad...

+ Many great players in vary roles played great, and with a good attitude. (specially among civ/bandits in the city).

- The Armbands.... (It´s the only thing i want to complain about) They were causing many of the "cheating-complains" that i´ve read here. This was the first year you NEEDED to put them on your vest. (almost needed). I sold many safety-pinns thou.... :D
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by HerrNilson » 11 Jul 2016, 23:04

pekezu wrote: But still some of the soldiers treated civilians bit bad. For example the first night a platoon of UPIR soldiers came to the village and shot around three civilians for no reason at all. Really nice! Give those guys a medal!
Typical UPIR scum.

:D
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Burger » 11 Jul 2016, 23:43

pekezu wrote:

I also liked the tension that those Bikers and Vipers brought to the village although I would have liked very much to see a bit more tension between these two groups.
We had originally planned for a bit of gang war.. But when we Vipers ended up being only 4 people (and 3 "secret" members in the bar), we knew that we didn't stand a chance in open conflict, so the conflict became a political one instead, a pretty onesided one, as nobody realized how much the Vipers were screwing around.

But damn, think about it. 40 signed on as Vipers, 16 payed, 7 showed up, 4 were active official members.
pekezu wrote: Bribes. Everyone was bribable.
Just like in real life eh? :D
Nah, I actually think, that the military groups were pretty tight with their cash, which made the decision on who to support into a discussion of "who is nicer to us?" (Answer: The reds)

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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by NumbNuts » 12 Jul 2016, 01:06

Imho all the civ casualties died of curiosity.
If those were real guns, I'd be so far into my house that not even a breeze could hit me.

I liked observing the evolution of the civilian x military relationship. It was like a micro-experiment on the effects of war on local population.

PS: I find it funny that in a sport where we fight a make believe war with as much of simulated realism as possible. People find larp elements odd or difficult. As if there were no civilian interaction in war. Or rain...
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by pekezu » 12 Jul 2016, 07:17

NumbNuts wrote:Imho all the civ casualties died of curiosity.
If those were real guns, I'd be so far into my house that not even a breeze could hit me.
That's about where I was when getting shot :D
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Losolos » 12 Jul 2016, 11:00

Summary of my B14

PRO
- Check- IN ok, works
- coloured strips seem good
- Balanced Teams
- Town was better than last year
- Good newspaper and journalist team

CON
- Chrono completly fail too long waiting
- Got no introduction what class for guns are the coloured Strip
- Safety distances keep them and when you have a gun with white strip or higher, bring a secondary !
- More HQ personal

Remarks
- Blue on red is not that interesting for a 3 day operation.
- More factions with changing alliances and maybe a LARP unit on both sides will help.
- Chrone guns first and then check in .. like Borderwars !
- Chrono in Bases


as i said .. i still write my feedback, thanks for the sarcasm wormbyte .. but im not a whining child. :P
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B13 HADES CO
B14 NAF - really not the best Berget
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B16 CIV service for the players

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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by wormbyte » 12 Jul 2016, 12:09

Losolos wrote:as i said .. i still write my feedback, thanks for the sarcasm wormbyte .. but im not a whining child. :P
If I came across sarcastically Losolos than I apologise. I was actually being serious. I don't agree with all your points, but ones perception is their reality. I take all feedback seriously and aim to make improvements where issues have been identified. :)
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by Losolos » 12 Jul 2016, 12:47

then big respect !

Thanks for you attention
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by beast » 16 Jul 2016, 14:02

GOOD

+ Ranger's unit played as Rangers not infantry. Thanks to Finnish guys who managed it very well.
+ No dead times
+ Real time map is a giant leap for game dynamics.
+ Be crew is always really nice.
+ The blondie girl at blue kiosk.

NOT SO GOOD

- Lack of good scenography, I would expect more realism in general. (it's the biggest airsoft event)
- Lack of good missions (for ranger's it was all about going out to cp points), it has been a little repetitive this year.
- Chrono: I've seen better and faster chroning job past years.
- The game area: I agree with those who say maybe it's time to change it. Viksmon was way much better.

REALLY BAD

--- BE provided game map was out of scale, it's a milsim game that's unacceptable to me.
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Re: GENERAL FEEDBACK

Post by GBB » 16 Jul 2016, 18:21

beast wrote:--- BE provided game map was out of scale, it's a milsim game that's unacceptable to me.
Here here..

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