Mine rules fixing

General information about our next game summer 2016.

Mine rules fixing

Postby KviCkerN » Wed 12 Apr, 2017 05:24

Can Berget fix the mine rules so its easy to understand. Beacause as a read the rules there are most for the Minefield that's not on a road! Like if u see 2 mines in the road and u can drive so the wheels not hitting it its that allowed? Vehicles cannot pass until all mines are cleared.yeah i know just stupid if 1mine is enough then u can just put 10mines up a 100meter long road. i feel it need to be at least 3 mines over the road from left to right, right to left.

1year i just drove around the mines in the "ditch" it was not even a ditch more like flat ground with little grass. Then the enemy was pist beacause we drove "over" the minefield when we don't even did it. i even send a guy out to check the grass before i drove there so. Then Berget master came and i check up on the rules and show him and say it don't say anything about driving around or even over if u send a guy out etc. And then he say yeah its not really so good rules about the mine on roads and for the mech units.
And the enemy team was saying they got told in the base it was if u see the mine u dead?? "okay i spot a mine 30meter from the car f*ck we are dead know!!!" yeaaa mines dont work like that! okay with 0.5meter maybe.

So please Berget fix Mine on ROAD rules!! Can we be 2 engineer on the mine and its go faster or only 1 etc. etc.?? How many mines need it to be in the road to fully stop? Some Berget master say something, some other Berget master say another thing. So in my eyes and ears that's not good!

They say 2years ago they going to fix the rules they did NOT!!So about time to get this fixed! I heard that need to be 3 mines then u have to stop if its 2 u can drive around so not easy to know. And maybe set a limit off mines on 1 place like 6mines each 150meter or so. 1 year somebody have got like 10-20 mines in 1 spot under 50meter and i think there just bout some frisbee colored them green and used them so not Berget but private mines. its fun with mines but when its like 50mines on a 150meter long road its not so fun anymore.

So i hope u fix the rules this year guys :D
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Wandall » Thu 20 Apr, 2017 22:20

Oh well,

let me cheer you up a bit. It doesn't really matter what the rules say regarding mines. At least what comes to my teams first hand experience on IKAROS in Berget 13.

We were at Janco and couple of our teams engineers had laid these mines on the downhill road that leads to safe zone and close by bajamajas. These engineers were shot right after they had physically dropped the mines on the road, aka these mines were not armed, basicly paperweights. This information is important as these three douche GM's had witnessed their deaths and noted them mines being deactive.

So maybe some 10-20 minutes went by and us the IKAROS dudes in Janco had formed a defencive line as there was a contact down this very same road the mines were DROPPED on.

Next me myself just happened to turn around and look for any potential hazards at our six and surely enough there was something preeeetty alarming: BE artillery GM's giggling to each other while dumping artillery fireworks right behing us, the IKAROS people, in total silence and unnoticed. Untill me happened. Didn't need more than a split second to pop my lungs by yelling:

"ENEMY ARTILLERY RIGHT BEHIND US! TAKE IMMEDIATE COVER! AJA AJA AJA!!!" (last par is finnish for DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE, which I yelled via comms to our big bad ass Scania trucks driver)

Their cover blewn them GM's saw fit to short lit 'em arty and all hell broke loose. At the same time these three dorsile douche GM's (we didn't regard them as any special type of GM's at this point yet, just to clear which GM's I'm referring to) decided to give our escaping Scania 2/3 hits from the artillery, acceptable and understandable.

We then drove down the road fast and decided to stop at the close by opening to have me (also an engineer) to fix Scania, but there were two problems: 1. two cars worth of ingame dorsile enemies and 2. a column of blue heli-trucks, maybe some half a dozen of them. We decided to take a risk and drive back up with this alarming information as we had no radiosignal that could reach Jancos friendlies. So we drove up.

And NOW after all this carefull and detailed setting up of the situation, comes the main point:
As we drove to Janco, these three douche GM had clearly became aware that we had to now have pretty important intell on the incoming "surprise attack", so when we drove over these STILL DEACTIVE MINES, these douches saw fit to blow our Scania up as we passed the mines and even detoured them a bit on the road not to hit them.

They KNEW those mines are not functional, but they don't need to follow rules. They even laughed at us and told us when we stopped next to them: "You stupid Finns, you drove over your own mines!" and we immediately told them that we all there know the mines are not active and thus they can't do what they did. Their reply was "Oh we can't possibly know that!" (If they're armed or not) Then we chose to offend rules by ourselves and just drove off to base.

How d*ck of a GM one needs to be to openly falsely claim to not know something that important to cover their own breaking of the rules?

Anyways lesson of today is:
1. Rules say what they want, GM's brains have the actual ones that are in effect in-game. :wank:
2. Let's beat them in their own game by playing like gentlemen amongst each other and 110% by the rules so they'll be out of work and bore themselves to death while we have all the fun. :team:

Disclaimer: Obviously not all GM's d*ck things this way, but actually care about rules. While this story is 100% true and told by a directly involved person, it's ment to lift up one fellow airsofters spirit (and just maybe rise some awareness on the fact that even GM's are people and all people sh*t their brains out at times).
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Arradin » Fri 21 Apr, 2017 12:38

KviCkerN wrote:Can Berget fix the mine rules so its easy to understand. Beacause as a read the rules there are most for the Minefield that's not on a road! Like if u see 2 mines in the road and u can drive so the wheels not hitting it its that allowed? Vehicles cannot pass until all mines are cleared.yeah i know just stupid if 1mine is enough then u can just put 10mines up a 100meter long road. i feel it need to be at least 3 mines over the road from left to right, right to left.

1year i just drove around the mines in the "ditch" it was not even a ditch more like flat ground with little grass. Then the enemy was pist beacause we drove "over" the minefield when we don't even did it. i even send a guy out to check the grass before i drove there so. Then Berget master came and i check up on the rules and show him and say it don't say anything about driving around or even over if u send a guy out etc. And then he say yeah its not really so good rules about the mine on roads and for the mech units.
And the enemy team was saying they got told in the base it was if u see the mine u dead?? "okay i spot a mine 30meter from the car f*ck we are dead know!!!" yeaaa mines dont work like that! okay with 0.5meter maybe.

So please Berget fix Mine on ROAD rules!! Can we be 2 engineer on the mine and its go faster or only 1 etc. etc.?? How many mines need it to be in the road to fully stop? Some Berget master say something, some other Berget master say another thing. So in my eyes and ears that's not good!

They say 2years ago they going to fix the rules they did NOT!!So about time to get this fixed! I heard that need to be 3 mines then u have to stop if its 2 u can drive around so not easy to know. And maybe set a limit off mines on 1 place like 6mines each 150meter or so. 1 year somebody have got like 10-20 mines in 1 spot under 50meter and i think there just bout some frisbee colored them green and used them so not Berget but private mines. its fun with mines but when its like 50mines on a 150meter long road its not so fun anymore.

So i hope u fix the rules this year guys :D


Good feedback!

Mines are not primarily used to blow up vehicles, mines are used to block off the road to halt the enemy movement, so its a form of "roadblock", that is why you can't just "drive just around it" . Keep in mind, no person in their right mind would drive their vehicle over a road with a visual mine until its been fully cleared.

Some things to clear up, as i feel the rules are pretty clear already:

" Mines may be found in the game area, and you will notice if you set one off. Anyone within three meters of a detonating mine is considered hit, and should react accordingly. Only engineers may disarm mines. There are beeping mines, BB-shooting mines and mines with small pyrotechnic effect. All inflict a "hit" injury. "

Clarification: It doesnt say you are hit as soon as you see it , it means that you will notice when you are hit by a mine, Either by GMs telling you that you are hit or that your BAVs is triggered, sometimes both. Ofcourse that doesnt make it OK just to driver over mines and hope you dont get hit just because you dont see any GMs around.

" The mines must be cleared before any vehicle can pass. The engineer must wait 1 minute for each mine to be removed. Vehicles cannot pass until all mines are cleared "


Clarification: While only one Engineer can defuse one mine at a time, several engineers can work on one mine each, therefor clearing the mines faster.

This year we have BE Provided booby trapped mines that require special engineers with special equipment.
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Panzergraf » Sat 22 Apr, 2017 00:22

Anti vehicle mines (that block roads) do not work the same way as anti personell mines (that detonate).

Personally, I understand the rules (I think), but I also recognize that they are not clearly written at all and it's no wonder some people are confused and get the different rules for different mines mixed up.
Let's dive in;

Do a Ctrl+F search of the word "mines" in the rules, first result is from the Vehicle Rules section:
If a vehicle is eliminated by mines or BAVS, while blocking the road the driver...

This implies that there are mines that can eliminate vehicles, but then later on, in the MINES section of the rules:
Anti-vehicle mines may also be found, they must be placed visibly on the road. They have an effect in terms of game mechanics only, and simply block a thoroughfare to vehicles. The mines must be cleared before any vehicle can pass.

"OK, so are there two types of anti vehicle mines?" You might ask. And how can you know if the mines on the road ahead are the kind that block the road, or the kind that detonate to eliminate your vehicle?
Mines may be found in the game area, and you will notice if you set one off.

So if you run over a mine, and it didn't detonate, was it a dud? Was it an official Berget mine, or just a paper plate someone painted green to trick you? Had they already been run over before, and were "used"? Can you drive through a minefield if you take care not to run over the mines with your wheels? What if you run a "sacrificial" vehicle through first, to set off the mines and clear a path for the rest of the unit?

The answer, as I understand it, is that anti vehicle mines don't detonate, and don't do anything. They're just a road block. You can't drive through until it's been cleared, no matter what.
But that's not as clearly written in the rules as it could have been. Removing the rules for mines that aren't used in the game will go a long way to make it clearer.
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby KviCkerN » Sat 22 Apr, 2017 01:15

exact panzergraf i bet u understand just because u have been on berget for a long time hehe :D i dont think its easy for fresh people to understand!!! And like i say how many mines do it need to be to fully stop? 1mines close to the ditch u can find drive around it on the right side off it? i was thinking more like when its mine u actually need to hit it with u car before u are taken out! and say if its 3 mines across the road u need to clear it fully all 3 mines. but when its only 1 or 2 u can drive around if possibly! So yeah fix those rules and remove when its not a minefield in game anymore! :team:
Last edited by KviCkerN on Sat 22 Apr, 2017 01:27, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby KviCkerN » Sat 22 Apr, 2017 01:20

Arradin wrote:Good feedback!

Mines are not primarily used to blow up vehicles, mines are used to block off the road to halt the enemy movement, so its a form of "roadblock", that is why you can't just "drive just around it" . Keep in mind, no person in their right mind would drive their vehicle over a road with a visual mine until its been fully cleared.

Some things to clear up, as i feel the rules are pretty clear already:

" Mines may be found in the game area, and you will notice if you set one off. Anyone within three meters of a detonating mine is considered hit, and should react accordingly. Only engineers may disarm mines. There are beeping mines, BB-shooting mines and mines with small pyrotechnic effect. All inflict a "hit" injury. "

Clarification: It doesnt say you are hit as soon as you see it , it means that you will notice when you are hit by a mine, Either by GMs telling you that you are hit or that your BAVs is triggered, sometimes both. Ofcourse that doesnt make it OK just to driver over mines and hope you dont get hit just because you dont see any GMs around.

" The mines must be cleared before any vehicle can pass. The engineer must wait 1 minute for each mine to be removed. Vehicles cannot pass until all mines are cleared "


Clarification: While only one Engineer can defuse one mine at a time, several engineers can work on one mine each, therefor clearing the mines faster.

This year we have BE Provided booby trapped mines that require special engineers with special equipment.


After 3years as mech at berget i have never noticed that mines go off! :P And u say 3meters is that counting when u are in car? if u drive over a mine everyone in the car is dead?

Will be nice if the mine rules is like this!

Car,Mech and road mines rules:Blablablabla drive over a mine blablablabla

Landmines,tripwire,personal mines rules: Blablabla step on mine blalbla

Static minefields Rules: Blablabla dont cross blablalbal

u take my point? :)
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Corleone » Tue 09 May, 2017 02:08

Like so many aspects of the game rules, BE does not seem interested in addressing these issues and making things clear rather than adding new elements every year. Last year at the game-start ambush, we saw some 3-4 NAF vehicles run straight through the mines and disappearing over the horizon. While I truly beleive that most of the drivers actually saw both the mines and the loads of disabled cars and personel at the front (clearly indicating that this area was not passable), this must be blamed solely on BE for being implemented poorly. My idea from years back goes something like this:

- Mines are made of 2-3 layers of thick plywood for strength and low cost. The inside is hollowed out to accomodate AA- or AAA-batteries and very simple electronics.
- The mines are painted red or blue to indicate which team has planted them and also has 3x LEDs of the same color recessed into the top so they don't damage too easily. The LEDs will flash every few seconds when activated and this will also make sure they're visible no matter how dark it gets.
- Somewhere there will be a button to activate/deactivate the mine. The button needs to be pushed continiously for xx seconds or it will not activate and not have a function in-game. Repeat this to deactivate. The timers are hard-coded by BE-crew.
- Moving flashing mines will be considered cheating.
- Mines will not have a detonate effect, but are simply to prevent vehicles from passing within a 2m radius of it. Doing so will be considered cheating and the players given a warning/ban.
- Alternately all mines can simply be painted red since all mines should be equally dangerous to any faction no matter what. The only problem with this will be that mines are too easy for a faction to disarm, steal and re-use. Maybe only blues can re-use blue mines? Alternatively mines would have to be re-armed at HQ by BE-crew, but this will require more advance electronics.


Why such rules you may ask?
Mines cannot have a functionality like the real-life version without having much more advanced technology than green-painted frisbees to activate and tag vehicles. In any game on your console/pc things happens automatically with triggers and there is never any doubt when you are hit. In a huge airsoft game on the other hand, everything happens manually or gets ignored. It is both up to the players to be attentive and honorable enough to enforce the rules themselves, and this simply fails a little too often for comfort. When this is the case, you need to simplify the effect and make the items in-question more visible.
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Arradin » Thu 11 May, 2017 11:17

The rules regarding mines will be clarified ( Not changed ) Shortly.
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Arradin » Thu 11 May, 2017 11:27

Please remember that this is a gentlemans sport. We need to be able to expect people to take MINE hits ( Or generally follow mine rules ) in the same way as we expect people to take normal hits.

But i agree that the rules are a bit unclear, and they will be clarified shortly.
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Wandall » Thu 11 May, 2017 11:41

A bit? There's a whole plethora of unclear and very interpretable rules here and there! For instance simple thing as medic armband has its specified rules split into basically three different sections of which "The Medic" is at least one of the sections.

P.S. I cherish this game as a gentlemens sport but seeing after seven Bergets how too many players from a variety of countries don't I personally feel that rules need to be so fool proof and clear that there's so place for ignorance or over interpretation for personal gain. All I hope is everyone playing according to the rules and for it to happen they need to be as simple, reader friendly and clear as possible. Even this thread for example excists solely because of unclear rules.
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Arradin » Thu 11 May, 2017 15:18

You can reach me directly at email: berget@arradin.com

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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby KviCkerN » Thu 11 May, 2017 19:57

YEAYYY nice that berget listening to people and thank you for pushing it on and fixing it Arradin :D
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Corleone » Fri 12 May, 2017 01:54

Arradin wrote:Please remember that this is a gentlemans sport. We need to be able to expect people to take MINE hits ( Or generally follow mine rules ) in the same way as we expect people to take normal hits. ...


It is with a great sadness that I can report that this has not been the case for either of my years at Berget. I could just as easily say that we need a world in which we can expect people to play fair, but it is vastly clear that this is not the case. This is why we continue to push for solutions that cannot be missed or dodged. :)
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Re: Mine rules fixing

Postby Arradin » Fri 12 May, 2017 10:30

Corleone wrote:
Arradin wrote:Please remember that this is a gentlemans sport. We need to be able to expect people to take MINE hits ( Or generally follow mine rules ) in the same way as we expect people to take normal hits. ...


It is with a great sadness that I can report that this has not been the case for either of my years at Berget. I could just as easily say that we need a world in which we can expect people to play fair, but it is vastly clear that this is not the case. This is why we continue to push for solutions that cannot be missed or dodged. :)


I understand what you are saying, but what i mean is that in a game like airsoft you can never make anything fullproof and impossible to cheat in. But anyway, rules have been clarified, and it should be crystal clear now.
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