General Feedback

Feedback and debriefings from Berget 15
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B2fox
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General Feedback

Post by B2fox » 04 Jul 2017, 14:26

This was my Berget number five.

And so far the best one! :D
We had SO much fun, with our little IIP company. The freedom to find and create own missions, based on interaction with both UPIR, NAF and the other “civilians”, were awesome.
I do wonder a bit about the behavior of the so called good guys NAF !
Instead of working with the local civilians (and mercs), they behaved like an evil aggressor. UPIR on the other hand, helped defending the village, and were keen to do business, with the Mercs.

Especially the NAF solution to the rumored UPIR undercover agent in town, were more the way of an aggressor. Attack the city and kill every civilian & Merc. Someone at NAF HQ, must have misunderstood something about the concept of liberating a country…
Btw. He got away, before the attack started… :mrgreen:

PRO.
Check-in, chrono and shop, worked quite well.
BE Crew were friendly and helpful. When Sweden attacked our ATV, by thrusting a massive piece of granite through a rear tire, the quickly pointed us, to a local repair shop, that solved the problem, in less than an hour.
Game area was really good. Lots of roads, for mobile units, and varied nature all around.
Great atmosphere among all players we met.

CON.
Rules. They really need a rework!
A “King of Rules” in BE HQ, that GM’s can contact, in case of doubt, may be a good idea. He/she can then make a decision, and distribute it via radio or maybe the Telegram app.

Endless NAF attacks on civilian town.
It started to seem like every single NAF unit, wanted to have a go at it.
All were guns blasing, like a Russian WW2 attack, without any regard for people or property :evil:
I don’t know if it was a lack of command & control, or missing respect for the storyline.
Making the town, an absolute NO-GO zone, for all units, unless there is a clear coordination, with GM's and LARP coordinator, may be an idea.

Almost no civilians.
4 civilians to almost 2000 regular players…
Yes the 100 Mercs also was a LARP ready unit. However, it is the civilian aspect, that makes it interesting.
But again I understand the real LARP’ers… If they get shot to shit, multiple times a day, it is no fun, for them. :cry:

Best single episode.
There are many. But this one, is really good.
A NAF commander came to the village, to negotiate with the local leader.
Dunno if it was a setup, to arrest him, but it suddently went south, with the leader at gunpoint, and a few Mercs gunned down.
But it DID NOT turn into a total slaughter !
Great work and disipline, by the NAF unit :)
All Mercs werw detained, searched and disarmed (tape on guns and wrist) and taken away.
Despite massive provocations, by the captured Mercs, not one guard, lost his cool, and started killing all.
Awsome fun :mrgreen:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A special thanks to Aradin, for working like hell, to make ends meet! :)
Always a smile, and a “Can I help you?”
It did not look like, an easy job. Maybe an assistant or two next year, would make his job, a bit more manageable.

Also thanks to the two drunken UPIR's that manned the bar.
That mas massive fun!

Let's have yours below...

See you all, next year :D
Last edited by B2fox on 04 Jul 2017, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
Nikolaj "B2" Poulsen - Team ILD I PIBEN

http://www.ildipiben.com
-----------------------------
B11 & B12: Ravens
B13: IKAROS Tank driver/Platoon leader
B14: NAF Delta
B15 & B16: Mercenaries "IIP Services"
B17: "Anything, Anywhere, Anytime"

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Re: BE 15 feedback

Post by L4gi » 04 Jul 2017, 15:04

I was the overall NAF commander, so the change to the ROE regarding yellow players was my call. We got numerous reports of yellow players opening fire on us first, which caused us to change the ROE to consider everyone hostile.

Our mission was to rescue the local civilian population(2 missions, both completetd before we started taking out people with guns in the town). Firstly we ran a rescue operation from our "encircled" base to the main NAF base, and then on Friday we also did another mission in which said "local population" was escorted to helicopters which took them to safety.

Middle of the game, due to some failed UPIR mission, we got intel that there are no real civilians in town, and that all people wearing civilian armbands are either enemy sympathizers or UPIR psyops agents. Arradin was the one who gave us this intel, and we checked with him about our change to the ROE, reply being "its up to you" basically. This on top of continued hostilities from yellow players ended up with us going from "only return fire" to "waste the motherfuckers".

The wolf bites back when you mess with it enough. ;)
B7 / B8 / B9 / B10 / B11 / B12 / B13 / B14 / B15 / B16

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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by Panzergraf » 04 Jul 2017, 16:37

My unit was never in town. For all I care it could just as well not have been there and the game could have been purely red VS blue, with no civilians and mercs.
Veteran of 11 Berget Games
B6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
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Seventh
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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by Seventh » 04 Jul 2017, 17:19

Can't say I found this Berget all that fun, it was very uneventful for me as a Merc. We were basically held in chains and used as NPCs and might aswell had worn red armbands. Didn't really have a need for reaching out to anyone as the Merc PR Manager, things were set in stone and if you wanted to walk outside the beaten path you had to kneel infront of game masters and get their "good-to-go"

Also! The lack of toilets at base and maintenance. Having to wipe ones arse in a deathrag because of there being no toiletpaper, that is no fun.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

Our mission was to rescue the local civilian population(2 missions, both completetd before we started taking out people with guns in the town). Firstly we ran a rescue operation from our "encircled" base to the main NAF base, and then on Friday we also did another mission in which said "local population" was escorted to helicopters which took them to safety.
Last time I heard of any NAF interaction with civilians it was a mass execution in the bar :D not that I expected a whole lot more from the blues again this year, you guys are a little like the greenskin hordes, when you go "Waagh!" you don't see or care about colours. You are basically the bad guys when looking at the larger picture, I bet you crashed that chopper full of civilians on purpose too! :P

Also a shout-out to the Irish lads in their armed green rover, thanks for the music and laugh! Hope to see you guys again next year.

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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by L4gi » 04 Jul 2017, 17:39

Seventh wrote:I bet you crashed that chopper full of civilians on purpose too! :P
Might have run out of fuel, accidentally of course. :D :lol:
B7 / B8 / B9 / B10 / B11 / B12 / B13 / B14 / B15 / B16

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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by MjProblem » 04 Jul 2017, 19:07

Great berget this year.

Can be improved:
1) Logistics in NAF base
-showers not available until later, people started to get angry about that.
-Berget breakfast served way too late, people whom came back to base after night missions and wanted to go on mission at 09.00 were screwed.
-No one in charge of chargers for people in companies, people were running out of batteries and had to stay in base before chargers showed up or were communicated.

Worked really well :D
-NAF HQ worked really well - kudos! Lot of hard work payed off.
-Collaboration with Mech really great.
-Really great people on all sides.


Civilians / Mercs
I can see the point that Mercs bring forward that NAF attacked the town but as usual there is two sides to the story,
1) Mercs participated in UPIR attacks against the base before that (we do not know if the attacks were sanctioned or not by the merc commander and we do not have any way of finding that out we judge based on the behavior of the Mercs)
All the way to friday our ROE towards the mercs was "Only shoot if fired upon"
2) We came to the village on thursday evening and the first thing the merc guards did was to open fire without any discussion. If you want to be treated as neutral you need to ensure you behave like it too.
3) As the game progressed the feeling was that the mercs were there to hide as warcriminals and trying to set up a enclave where they could rule without being persecuted for any warcrimes they did. There were no civilians only Mercs in the village.
4) Negotations with Mercs fell off the realistic end. Here we have a smaller Merc unit occuping part of a country which NAF is trying to retake. Any citizens of Nordland that are part of the Merc or UPIR units have committed treason or high treason. Being Mercs at this moment one would expect them to play a very conciliatory tone with NAF they are a foreign armed unit trying to carve out a piece of land where Nordland rule of law would not be applicable. So keep this in mind.
So when we (Bravo coy) came to Merc village to negotiate on friday.

So what happened was that FinBat beat Bravo company to the village with two minutes and the firefighting started when a Merc guard opened up on the Finnish troops and they retailated.
It seemed like the village would be overrun in minutes.
I tried to stop the firefighting together with my XO and after some heated discussions we managed to get people stop shooting then some one in the village opened up and the music started up again, it seemed like a lost cause. :evil:

Now our Mech showed up too via the southern road, even more troops to coordinate with.... *sigh*
Now I would have given up trying to get the cease fire working if it had not been so that one of the Mercs was captured by the Finnish troops and this gave us a communication channel so lets get the diplomatic circus started again.

....fast forward past two shooting incidents...... :x

We come to the entrance of the village with our Merc spokesperson and our negotiator "Lars"
It took 15 minutes of screaming and shouting to get the situation across and to get blackbeard to join the area.
It was really tense people did not know what would happen and whom to trust. Basically there was no trust between Mercs and NAF. Our NAF units did not have same objectives so we needed to align and quickly, this we did and Finbat acted very quickly.

During the negotiations it was agreed that lets take some baby steps and create some trust. BUT here the Merc negotiation kinda fell of the table. It just shows it is really tough to do all of this while thinking on your feet and being under pressure.
We have now spent an hour of game time standing still and Mercs refuse us to use the one road we need to use and they refuse us to come in and identify warcriminals. Then 10 people unarmed are allowed to come in, one minute later 20 people but unarmed. Hell NO - Mercs have been shooting at us at every turn so that is no go.

At this moment the choice is to how friendly the mercs will make this whole ordeal. If you are a occupying force that is hiding war criminals and we have the upper hand there is only so long we are willing to bend and wait. You can watch the video from the event. The video starts when Mercs tell us to send all our demands in writing and they will respond in 1h time. This could have been acceptable in the beginning of the game but with all the units standing there and waiting - that is a no go directly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=njqIFlv32Hc&t=263s

Anyways what seemed to become a cluster¤%¤ became an intense negotiation with an equally intense end.
Thanks to everyone that made it a fun event.

oh and the result of this war-criminal raid, once we had sent off the photos the reply was that EVERYONE expect for 2 people were wanted as war criminals!
----------------------------------------------
Son, you only thought you had problems. Now you have Major Problems.
B16 - NAF - Coy Cmdr (C Coy)
B15 - NAF - Coy Cmdr (B Coy)
B14 - NAF - Coy Cmdr (C Coy)
B13 - GCT Engineers
B12 - GCT 9 Ranger SF
B11 - GCT SIDU

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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by Pazzo » 04 Jul 2017, 19:18

So, berget 15.
My third berget.
Best moment: attacking the Naf oil depot twise in a day with 27 people going up against the whole Naf base.
Also holding the crossroad at control point 7(i think) against the whole naf mechanized denying them to cross for several hours.

Pros: chroning weapons went faster this year.
Toilets did not stink as much as previus years.

Cons: to far between the base and the longterm parking.
Toilets were often out of toilet paper.
Not realy my business since i did not pay for their ticket but feelt lite to many people were there living a festival life instead of doing milsim. Like i said its their money and they do what they want but when the base is under attack and a large group is having a Bbq and dont even care to take cover or move so the attackers and defenders can play i start to wonder if they are at the right place..
Cheating... observed several blue players that was hit, asked if it was friendly fire or not and then just continued playing. Same with red players i healed that ran of as soon as i tied the bandage on them instead of waiting 2min.

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B2fox
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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by B2fox » 04 Jul 2017, 20:45

MjProblem wrote:The NAF side, of the story
I could not have asked, for a better reply !
This shows how different one story, can seem, from opposite sides.
My respect for those NAF forces, that not just wasted us all, in that situation, is HUGE !!

I were one of Blackbeard's two bodyguards, and really felt the heat, when the shootings occured..
Standing there, with a massive amount of guns pointing at you, when something goes badly wrong, in the back, is one of the more intense mononts, of my 25 years in airsoft.
But only because it did NOT end up in the slaughter, that would be natural, for no-brain airsofters.

I salute the soldiers of Finbat and NAF, for not doing the easy, but right thing, in that situation !
Nikolaj "B2" Poulsen - Team ILD I PIBEN

http://www.ildipiben.com
-----------------------------
B11 & B12: Ravens
B13: IKAROS Tank driver/Platoon leader
B14: NAF Delta
B15 & B16: Mercenaries "IIP Services"
B17: "Anything, Anywhere, Anytime"

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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by Panzergraf » 04 Jul 2017, 20:57

10th Berget for me (but I didn't get a patch?), and one of the best.

Pro:
+ The game area. I've been longing for a return to Sollefteå ever since Berget 8! Infinitely better than Härnön.
+ Our HQ (NAF) seemed to be on top of things
+ Mech company and platoon commanders did a great job too. To me it felt like all our missions had purpose, even if we didn't always get to shoot stuff.
+ Check in went much smoother this year than previously.
+ We could chrono our vehicle mounted guns in the BAVS-line. Made things so much easier for me!
+ Adding BAVS TOW launchers was cool.
+ Sollefteå is a cozy little town.
+ Redland's two tanks! Added a lot to our sense of immersion in the game. Thank you for bringing them, JeepTom! :cooltank:

Cons:
- BAVS issues; the system didn't work right in the bright sun, and the AT4 launchers are still too powerful in low light conditions, making the TOW kinda redundant.
- The team uniform rules made no sense, with different camo patterns assigned to different teams seemingly with no rhyme or reason. Made ID'ing targets almost impossible without seeing armbands.
- The Berget Kiosk in the NAF base. Opened later than advertised, and didn't have the meals we had paid for. I was offered a can of coke and a chocolate in place of the thursday breakfast. Not exacly nutricious food!
- I still think putting almost all the cars on one team was a bad idea. What's wrong with having two symmetrical teams?
Veteran of 11 Berget Games
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B16 - Upir Mech

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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by Olli » 04 Jul 2017, 21:25

It was a cool mission to siege the town. We ordered the Finbat to arrest OR if needed, shoot and then arrest all yellow unit from the village. The negotiations went fine, even we didn't find solution for the situation. Basicly the idea of negotiation was to buy time for units to put the village to complete lockdown. It was more as a raid than negotiation and we weren't there to ask politely could be come in :D

After time was up, we shouted the codeword "Kyrpä" to start moving to village from all sides and arrest all yellows and civs one by one from the village. After arrested they were moved to procedure of complete search and interrogation at the road leading to village. Ofcource things didn't go that smoothly, but atleast we didn't slaughter the whole village + had some cool moments for yellow and blue players.

FinBat will write full AAR later. Generally speaking one of the best Berget-games ever. Good job!
Olli Vesakoski
B5 FFF commander
B6 SRP commader
B7 SRP commander
B8 Poldovian 1st Link Officer
B9 Zansian commander Z01
B11 GCT taking down the Iron Wall
B12 Yuri Orlov's angry mob
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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by FransR » 04 Jul 2017, 23:52

Imo you should be able to park your car close to your main base

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Corni
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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by Corni » 05 Jul 2017, 00:08

Pro's
It was a great Game.
NAF was in our face almost all the time and it was never boring.
We had a lot of fights and the missions we got were manageable.
The weather was great.

Con's
There are so many vague parts in the Rules that it's sometimes really frustrating.
Does anyone know how many players actually showed up on each side? 'Cause it seemed like on the UPIR side were way less players or at least NAF certanly seemed to be everywhere (not complaining).
I don't know how well UPIR did but for me it felt like we got our ass handed to us.
Having an almost inf-only team and squash their camp into the corner of the map seems like not the fairest idea.

UPIR HQ
I don't want to trash-talk the UPIR Command but from my perspective it seemed like they were not allways on top of things.
Leading the HQ is a very hard job and I didn't really had an inside look on what they were actually doing.
But sometimes it appeard that they had no clue what was going on.
As far as I know there wasn't even a base defence schedule.
B12/ Orlvov Mercs / SWE,NOR-Coy / Robin-3 Squad Leader
B13/ GCT Infantry / 3rd Platoon Leader
B14/ NAF Infantry / Echo-1 Platoon Leader
B15/ UPIR Heavy Weapons & Demolitions Unit Squad leader
B16/ NAF Mechanised / Golf-3 Platoon Leader

I like big BAVS and I cannot lie...

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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by beast » 05 Jul 2017, 08:35

As FINBAT member I've addressed my feedback to Finbat HQ.

My biggest complaint about Berget 15 is the 6 hours resting time from 3 to 9 am.

I don't travel 3000km to rest almost a day in a 3 days game.

First time in 7 berget I've attended.
Last edited by beast on 07 Jul 2017, 07:57, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by Sgt._Shaw » 05 Jul 2017, 10:37

All in all we had a blast. Thanks to JeepTom and the crew of our MT-LB :)

Pros:
+ new AT4s look nicer, worked great, many vehicle-kills :D
+ Toilets and Water at UPIR main-base
+ Check-in and chroning went smooth
+ Game area was great (town too ^^)
+ online map with current status of CPs
+ roads and area (cannot mention that enough)


Cons:
- not enough space for our tent(s) at UPIR base, we had to move to a different location 2km south (old NAF base from berget #8) - with no toilets and water // Whole heavy mech and thor coy where there.
- some minor problems with the TOW in bright sunlight
- communication to and from higher-up was non-existent
- often some kind of "set-in-stone" story, made by GMs
- a lot of downtime due to communication problems with UPIR HQ

Thank you all guys! You made this Berget great in total (as always)! I hope we were a pain in the ass for NAF, but also a great addition to the game. Thanks again to JeepTom for giving us the chance to ride and fight with his tanks!

:tank:

See you all next year! :team:
Berget 10: NAF 2nd Mech- Scout/Bv 206-Crew (Odin coy)
Berget 11: GCT Mechanized, Direwolf 1 - RATELO (D-1-2)
Berget 12: PMC Mechanized, Lockpick, Bv-206 RATELO and 2IC
Berget 13: GCT Mechanized, Lockpick-Coy: 2IC and RATELO
Berget 15: UPIR Heavy Mechanized, PBV Mech-Inf, AT and 2IC

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Re: BE 15 feedbacks

Post by Charlie_Echo » 05 Jul 2017, 13:49

I participate Berget 14 and Berget 15 and so far, Berget 15 was better and also compared to other games, very good one.

I was member of the "FinCoy" and it was just awesome.

Compared to Berget 14:

Con:

- FinCoy base placement was little disadvantageous because placing the big berget tents there on a flat ground was nearly impossible.
- A lot more bitching around from players. If you are hit, just should out "HIT" very loud or even better scream, so that everybody can clearly see if you are hit.
- Village was poor compared to last year, also nearly no cilvilians there.
- A lot of blue on blue - most of use were "killed" by friendly forces not enemy forces. I would suggest to change the camo rules to be simple like desert camo vs green camo.

Pro:

- FinCoy HQ did a great job. Great briefings and after action briefings, also in english for us foreigners - awesome!
- Missions were better. Last year was all about getting CPs...this year we had "real" and different missions.
- Working together with other NAF-elements were great.
- Gamearea was little bit better then last year.
- We had helicopter rides,which was awesome because last year we had to walk for 1-2 hours to get to our objective but if you arrive there after 1-2 hours, you are wasted and if you are "killed" you have to walk 1-2 hours back.
With the helicopter rides it was like it should be - getting to the objective very fast and fresh.
- Getting to the base was easy


All in all it was a great time and a great game, so thanks to FinCoy and Berget Crew!

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