question - m203 vs. vehicles

Eddie_Price · Post by **Eddie_Price** » 15 May 2007, 15:46

About the possibility to put a nonarmored vehicle out of action using an m203 grenade launcher firing paintballs, what kind of m203 grenades is allowed for this purpose?

Is, for example, this one allowed:
http://www.madbullairsoft.com/English/i ... ucts_id=14
?

just want to make sure my grenade-tossing friend doesn't waste his money on the wrong things

whiskey · Post by **whiskey** » 15 May 2007, 17:08

non-armoured vehicles can be taken out by a standard airsoft m203/GP25/GP30 etc., not a paintball one. E.g. http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/a ... odID=14062

and similar.

Post by **Berget-events** » 15 May 2007, 23:43

whiskey wrote:non-armoured vehicles can be taken out by a standard airsoft m203/GP25/GP30 etc., not a paintball one. E.g. http://www.redwolfairsoft.com/redwolf/a ... odID=14062

and similar.

I have to correct you on this one, recently we changed the rules for this, from rules page;

Anti-Armor Weapons
There will be anti-armor weapons at Berget like AT-4 or RPG. These will be used for destroying vehicles, and fire a paintball projectile. Grenade launchers like the M203 cant damage tanks.

NOTE! If you fire upon a non-armored vehicle, it can be destroyed with granades from gun mounted grenade launchers like the M203(those firing a paint ball bullet). Ordinary small-arms fire can not damage any vehicles.

Remember that a "hit" is only counted if it hits the front wind shield. All other hits are not counted as hit.
When hit the driver must either follow his damage table or stop the vehicle, since it is deemed to be destroyed.

Tanks can be hit from all sides, but in same battles the driver wont notice the hit. If you fire with AT-weapon and you can clearly see the paint ball marking on the tank, please scream - "TANK HIT" so the driver can react to this with his damage table (only the guy with the anti tank weapon can scream hit). If there is a game master close by, he will check this.

Minimum range for firing antitank weapons and grenade launchers is 10m. Those concerned will receive detailed instructions concerning safety and operation. These weapons must never be deliberately fired at people, though they have been extensively tested, including direct hits to people with net-eye protection without injury. These weapons may under no circumstances be home-made without approval and testing from us.

Post by **Berget-events** » 15 May 2007, 23:48

Eddie_Price wrote:About the possibility to put a nonarmored vehicle out of action using an m203 grenade launcher firing paintballs, what kind of m203 grenades is allowed for this purpose?

Is, for example, this one allowed:
http://www.madbullairsoft.com/English/i ... ucts_id=14
?

just want to make sure my grenade-tossing friend doesn't waste his money on the wrong things

All paintnall-grenades that can be bought is ok, they will be "chroned"/tested at gamesite. Homemade stuff is not allowed.

Torak · Post by **Torak** » 16 May 2007, 03:19

Well, I'm definitely not bringing my Land Rover, then. An airsoft shower it can probably take; a paintball hit, I'm not so sure.

Ah well. Saves me a bucketload of money, anyway.

fixed · Post by **fixed** » 16 May 2007, 08:52

I just read tomys reply

And I must say, he is definetly on to something, a paintball projectile have a great possibility to make a dent in the bodywork of a car. 6mm BB´s from an airsoft grenade, will not do the same.

And especially the fact that this rule is being changed this close to the game, is going to cost alot of money for some people, and this is to be looked upon as NOT fair, especially when people are highlighting this and there posts are being deleted. Besides that a 6mm shower grenade is much more safe than a paintball grenade, I would prefer to have a accidental shot in the head with a BB shower grenade instead of an paintball grenade, and why ruin the chance of people using their cars ingame... This usually gives a cool feeling in a game, and some people have actually planned on bringing their cars because of the previous rules, and when coming from afar this costs money, and ALOT of money!

WildCard · Post by **WildCard** » 16 May 2007, 08:56

Also, where can you get paintball shells?

I've never seen them i think...

Post by **Berget-events** » 16 May 2007, 09:28

First off all: we are sorry that this matter have accured and we understand that some can think this is really bad. It is NOT our intension to destroy plans or make people suffer for rule changes in the last minute. If this should be seen as a huge problem we are open to dicussion. BUT please read the following text and then you understand that we have really thought about this. The change isent that big as it first looks. WE WILL RECONSIDER THIS RULE in discussions with internatinal organizers and concerned players.

Tomy Wrote:
Dear Spof and the crew,

Well it is a GREAT SHAME that RULES GET CHANGED after months and months of being introduced and only WEEKS before the game.

I find this change of Airsoft GAS M203 versus PAINTBALL M203 an outrage.

Our team is bringing 4 ingame non-armored vehicles (and yes we will drive them there 2000km from Slovakia). We have bought and paid very expensive Ferry tickets for the vehicles months ago AND NOW THIS.

Dear Spof I think you should really reconsider your approach towards CHANGING RULES after they have been introduced. I find it very unproffessional and basically a stab in the back. Vehicles were to give extra game experience and seeing people bringing their Land Rovers would be an excellent asset to the game. Now Torak (all definitively other people too) will NOT bring their vehicles maybe because of this change in rules.

All weapons fireing a paintball-bullet will be tested just for this reason. When we tested our AT4 VS a m140(with 0,43) sniper at 5 meters, the sniper leaved a dent in the car but not the paintball bullet. Please trust us with this.

Anti-Armor Weapons
-"There will be anti-armor weapons at Berget like AT-4 or RPG. These will be used for destroying vehicles, and fire a paint ball projectile."

That sentence have been there from the start, the only thing we changed is that m203 should fire paintball grenades.

Tomy Wrote:
You must understand that most of the non-armoured vehicles people have and use in airsoft are also used by them on regular daily basis and maybe an Painball cannot damage the wind shield, but if it is not aimed properly and hits the body of the car it will definitively leave a dent. You ever thought about this when applying sudden changes to rules?????????????????????

First of all, antitank weapons AT-4 & RPG (paintball) was from the start allowed to be fired at vehicles. So there is no huge difference to fire them from a m203 or AT-4, when we chrone/test all paintball guns to have a low FPS.

Tomy Wrote:
Also becuse of the AIRSOFT M203 rule I personally bought 6 bb shower moscarts, my friend bought an M203 and another 6 moscarts ONLY BECAUSE the rule at B5 for taking out the the non armored vehicles. Are you going to reimburse us since we have no special use for them and we dont want to carry and use them on people????

We changed this rule when we learned that ordinary M203 lanchers fire airsoft paintball bullets without problems (6mm). You can still use your grenades as usual. If you dont have time to get 6mm paintball bullet you can still buy them cheap at the game area.

Post by **Berget-events** » 16 May 2007, 09:40

WildCard wrote:Also, where can you get paintball shells?

I've never seen them i think...

You can use paintball-airsoft 6mm bullets in a standard shell. There is also special ones made for fireing a single bullet.

Crapgame · Post by **Crapgame** » 16 May 2007, 09:47

its sad that people arnet going to take their vwhicles anymoore, now that we can see what its really about, 6mm paintballbullets in a m203 doesent give dents unless u have some kind of extra strong gas and thats what the crew will test at check-in area....

NIN · Post by **NIN** » 16 May 2007, 11:19

First of all I will have my personal car at the gamesite in use by the Crew shipping people to the ER etc. Its a pile of shit (the car)but its mine and i love the damn hunkajunk.

I would prefer a painballbullet to a airsoft BB any day cus i have seen on previous Berget games what M120 and Thunderkings does to your paintjob. The paintball bullet does less damage and if we chrone the bazookas correktly (we will) nothing will happen to your vehicles that water will not fix. Securityrange and low velocity on the painball-markers will solve this dilemma.

And Torak your car has considerably tougher structure and body than my car so yours should not be at any risk. In comparison your car is the shit

We have tried the new bazookas and all they left on the cars were paint. If you still feel insecure about this we could stream a video for you to calm your worries.

We have thought about this to spare our and your transports, and found that this is a good compromise. Would have been good if we would have thought about this earlier but we are human and capable of misstakes. And those of you who have said that you will not bring your vehicles please reconsider because YOU and everyone else will have more fun if you do.

also
viewtopic.php?t=1217&highlight=

Eldoriath · Post by **Eldoriath** » 16 May 2007, 11:23

Can't really see why people changed their mind about bringing vehicles with this change. Was they expecting that only m203 using BBs were going to shoot at them?
It's not to complain at them and i can understand that people are carefull about their cars, but they must have thought that the paint-ball AT weapons was going to shoot at them and not only AS m203.

Thinker · Post by **Thinker** » 16 May 2007, 12:25

I understand people get upset about things, small rule changes can have great effect on peoples ideas and kit, but its not the first time rulechanges is made before a game, wont be the last. Being prepared is good, but shit happens, improvise adapt and overcome.

But anyone that hade thought about the rules a bit should have been aware that any vehicles used in the game nomatter what game class could be fired upon with paintball AT weapons, BB showers and AEGs, and if you dont want that to happen, dont use the vehicle ingame.

I mean, come on, think. If you have a AT weapon with a paintball and sees a non armored enemy vehicle, wouldnt you use it aimed at the windshield as the rules say? Would you go:
"Well guess we have to let them pass, wouldnt want to damage the vehicle." Even if you really would do that, would you continue to do it if they fired upon you from inside? Dont think so.

You can bet that even if you cant damage a vehicle with AEGs, people WILL still fire upon them, perticulary if they have enemies inside shooting out or dismounting.

Personnally I wouldnt buy anything really expensive just to be used at Berget5. And this rulechange, even if your plans change and it has cost you money, I see the rule change about mines making them inflict "hit" instead of "dead" accually has a far bigger inpact on the game, and that also affect the BB showers alternative usage.

Oh and Spof, doesnt this wording mean that you can't accually fire normal non-paint 40mm on enemy players? 10m I can understand, although the power depends on the grenade. Shouldn't "These weapons" be slightly changed to "Paintball fireing weapons"?

Spof wrote:Minimum range for firing antitank weapons and grenade launchers is 10m. These weapons must never be deliberately fired at people...

whiskey · Post by **whiskey** » 16 May 2007, 14:49

NIN wrote: I would prefer a painballbullet to a airsoft BB any day cus i have seen on previous Berget games what M120 and Thunderkings does to your paintjob. The paintball bullet does less damage and if we chrone the bazookas correktly (we will) nothing will happen to your vehicles that water will not fix. Securityrange and low velocity on the painball-markers will solve this dilemma.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this, but I do not think that an airsoft 40mm grenade has an M120 inside. The efect of BBs fired from such a grenade is really negligible, especially from a range like 10m and significantly degrades with distance. I even consider it a better option as the shower has definitely higher chance to catch driver's attention than a single paintball hitting the vehicle, e.g. while people are disembarking and make all kinds of random noises during that.
Plus, allowing paintball m203 at an airsoft event without compulsory full-face masks gives a potentially VERY DANGEROUS weapon into hands beyond control of the event organisers. They will distribute bazookas to people they choose, they will be the ones deciding what gas will be used for loading etc. They cannot guarantee the same for individual paintball m203. Plus, the organizers would have to go through all the existing products in the world to specify which ones are/aren't allowed, so that someone doesn't come up with a thing like this:
http://www.madbullairsoft.com/English/i ... ucts_id=14
This is .68" paintball that is propelled by red gas or CO2 (up to 6x more gas capacity than other shells), which is pretty cool, unless you're hit by it (even accidentally), let's say in the face wearing only you cool looking airsoft goggles.... Remember the bazooksas from B4, they only did bang and what has happened...

Therefore I am strongly against allowing ANY paintball weapons beyond the AT-4s handed out by event organizers.

Thinker wrote: But anyone that hade thought about the rules a bit should have been aware that any vehicles used in the game nomatter what game class could be fired upon with paintball AT weapons, BB showers and AEGs, and if you dont want that to happen, dont use the vehicle ingame.

I think the point here is not only that the vehicle will be hit with paintballs. If you have rules for over half a year specifying that you can use an airsoft 40mm round to disable a vehicle, and you spend hundreds of dollars specifically to able to take out vehicles, and then 4 weeks before the event someone tells you they are useless, you consider that a case of "improvise, adapt etc."? Well, I don't think so, and agree with Tomy.

NIN · Post by **NIN** » 16 May 2007, 16:39

Thanks for all your input! We take this diskussion very seriously and personally I think its great that you guys secondguess scrutinice our decitions so we will have everything sortet out until the event.

We will discuss this thouroughly on todays meeting and try to go over all the pros and cons of this topic.

question - m203 vs. vehicles

question - m203 vs. vehicles

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