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arne71
Private
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:26 Post subject: glass bbs |
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It has been discussed in other threads on this board. And I can confirm that glass bbs were indeed used. Several of my teammates were hit by them. This happened on saturday, during the last firefight against the Mercs, by the SRP base. We handed over one of the bbs to Berget crew present at the location. If they took any action I don`t know.
One of the bbs went straight through a teammate`s combat vest. he really felt the impact. Another teammate (Motorhead) was at the receiving end of a headshot with a glass bb. The bb went straight through his cap. fortunatly he was wearing a shemag underneath. He was not seriously hurt, but the bb left a very nasty mark on his head.
Obviously someone has not been reading the rules. Apart from using glass bbs, saftydistance can not have been observed, and the gun was most likely too powerful as well.
If you set out to a game of airsoft with the intention of physically harming your oponents, then..... Well.....
Enough said |
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Erwin
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Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:27 Post subject: |
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To pass trough simple linen cloth, the bullet must fly very fast and be sharp-pointed, or fly amazingly fast, without sharp head.
To pass trough materiel used in tactical vests... |
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arne71
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Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:36 Post subject: |
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Belive it or not. I was there. I saw it with my own eyes. Rumors say that a guy was thrown out from the Mercs using a 1000 fps weapon. But that was a day or two earlier. Who knows? He could hva had a partner?
Last edited by arne71 on Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:41; edited 1 time in total |
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RRP Taksi
Berget Master Trustee
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 320
Location: Sthlm /SWE
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:37 Post subject: |
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We had a couple of guys taking hard hits. (What ammo i dont know.)
I didnt even know this type of munitions existed until after the game.
All the finns and we in Dog company (entire SRP) agreed that these munitions are unethical and not one of us used such ammo.
I saw one of these after the game and thought it was a joke at first.
I honestly dont even see the point to it.
I also believe that we will never find out who used it because they will never come forward.
If this type of ammo was used i can understand why car windows were damaged.
_________________
Mmh..
B4-5-6-7 PL/CC (FFF/SRP command foreign and Swed) contact.
OPCR2-3 |
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kjsaw
Berget Master Trustee
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:38 Post subject: |
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A bag of what appeared to be glass bb's was spotted when NATO entered the MERC camp on the final day. I helped get hold of a gamemaster and as far as I understand the bag was examined (not sure if a sample or the whole bag was taken). Hopefully at some point the crew will report on this.
_________________
Berget 4 - Sierra Coy Commander.
Berget 5 - Echo Coy Commander, Allied XO.
Berget 6 - NATO Forces Coy Commander
Berget 7 - NATO Forces Battalion Commander
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. |
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RRP Taksi
Berget Master Trustee
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 320
Location: Sthlm /SWE
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:39 Post subject: |
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| arne71 wrote: | | Rumurs say that a guy was thrown out from the Mercs using a 1000 fps weapon. Who knows? He could hva had a partner? |
This was a rumour, i could not find anyone to corroborate it, crew or otherwise.
_________________
Mmh..
B4-5-6-7 PL/CC (FFF/SRP command foreign and Swed) contact.
OPCR2-3
Last edited by RRP Taksi on Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:45; edited 1 time in total |
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kjsaw
Berget Master Trustee
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 667
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:39 Post subject: |
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| RRP Taksi wrote: | | arne71 wrote: | | Belive it or not. I was there. I saw it with my own eyes. Rumurs say that a guy was thrown out from the Mercs using a 1000 fps weapon. Who knows? He could hva had a partner? |
This was a rumour, i could not find anyone to corroborate it, crew or otherwise. |
Correct taksi, no such thing. The crew confirmed this. "A rumor can run around the world before the truth has got its boots on"
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Berget 4 - Sierra Coy Commander.
Berget 5 - Echo Coy Commander, Allied XO.
Berget 6 - NATO Forces Coy Commander
Berget 7 - NATO Forces Battalion Commander
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. |
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Erwin
Private
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:40 Post subject: |
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| arne71 wrote: | | Belive it or not. I was there. I saw it with my own eyes. Rumurs say that a guy was thrown out from the Mercs using a 1000 fps weapon. Who knows? He could hva had a partner? |
1000 fps? You mean 300m/s? Are you kidding?
With bullets that weigh how much?
Not enough speed to make holes in cloth.
I personally used nuclear powered bb:s and I saw them with my own eyes.
Too bad they were .20g, too much hop-up. |
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arne71
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Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:45 Post subject: |
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| Well then, thank God, the 1000 fps story was just a rumor. But the fact remains. Bbs that went straight through clothing were used. And they looked very much like glass bbs. |
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Erwin
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Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:48 Post subject: |
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To make holes in cloth, it does not take just material and weigth into account.
When trying to get something trough soft cloth, that is hanging freely, it takes a HUGE amount of speed, power, weight, and if the projectiles are round, it takes even more.
ESPECIALLY SPEED
Right now, I'm trying to find some mathematic ways to calculate this, but without them, I would speculate for some 2000 meters per second, not feets, meters, bullets that weigh some 5 grams, maybe? I'm not sure if that is sufficient.
Last edited by Erwin on Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:51; edited 1 time in total |
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motörhead
Lieutenant
Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 228
Location: Hönefoss, Norway
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:50 Post subject: |
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To be correct - I was not wearing a shemagh under my cap but my borrowed cap had a visible black mark at impact point afterwards. I was on my way down after being hit by multiple ordinary BB and reaching for my orange death rag. I'm OK but seriously fear that had I fallen down a fraction slower I might have got hit in my teeth - with serious costs afterwards.
The mentioned projectile also made a distinctive hard "PLAKK" sound at impact and was fired at a distance of approx 5-10 meters through tight vegetation - seen behind my picture in another thread here.
I cannot testify that this was a glass BB - but a unique BB of some kind with noticeably higher impact and energy than the BB's that hit me seconds before that impact. 6-7cm lower and my front teeth would have been history
The guy with a BB in his vest was Genetberg from Norway (QRF Platoon) and according to him it didn't go through, but was embedded in his vest. Better check facts with him before further rumours develop.
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Motörhead, SBA, Norway
B6: NATO, Oscar COY, 3rd PLT, 3rd squad
B7: NATO S6
B8: ?
Last edited by motörhead on Thu 03 Jul, 2008 00:04; edited 1 time in total |
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Brujo
Berget Master Trustee
Joined: 21 Oct 2007
Posts: 435
Location: Slovenia
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:56 Post subject: |
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1000 was a rumor! Just like the rumor that meathead was gay 
Glass BB's were however found, one BB was broken and it shattered in spiky parts of glass. Whatever the chemical structure of that BB was, it had all the characteristics of glass.
The BB's were in a Begadi plastic bag and BE apparently knew a bout it since Friday.
http://www.begadishop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_208&products_id=2044
http://www.begadishop.com/sheets/bcb-glas-028-review-english.pdf
BE, I strongly believe that whoever owned this bag should not be allowed back to Berget as these BB's ARE dangerous. Glass does not deform upon impact like plastic does and offers no absorbtion of energy. It will cause damage to bone surface if hit on a hard spot.
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B6 - NATO Batallion Commander
B7 - Flippy - Orlov's businessman / 1Coy2Plt CO
B8 - Poldavian 3rd Mountain -we kill rangers
Airsoft Klub Salamander - Slovenia |
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Erwin
Private
Joined: 20 Jun 2008
Posts: 15
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| Posted: Wed 02 Jul, 2008 23:59 Post subject: |
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And to get the glass BB to fly in adequate speed to shatter bone?
One should use? ...Catapults? |
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RRP Taksi
Berget Master Trustee
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
Posts: 320
Location: Sthlm /SWE
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| Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 00:01 Post subject: |
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Looks like what i saw...
_________________
Mmh..
B4-5-6-7 PL/CC (FFF/SRP command foreign and Swed) contact.
OPCR2-3 |
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Trasher-HU
Staff Sergeant
Joined: 03 Jun 2008
Posts: 114
Location: Hungary
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| Posted: Thu 03 Jul, 2008 00:12 Post subject: |
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Can anyone post pic of the gear penetrated by the BBs? I find hard to beleive BBs went through thick cordura, but not caused serious (flesh-penetrating) wounds on some other places on the field... I tested numerous exotic BBs with high fps rifles, but these kind of penetration is unheard of even at close ranges.
Anyone still has one of these "glass" BBs? (transparent Bioval BBs according to organizers) The only glass brand available has .28 nominal weight.
Not to mention that airsoft pellets lose muzzle energy very quickly... An 1000fps with .28s impacts around 1 Joule at 40-50 meters... That won't penetrate anything like that, not even 2 Joule at point blank. If people were shot by an overpowered rifle inside the minimum engagement distance (30-40m max), I find *very strange* that no one was able to locate or id the shooter.
If the mystery shooter had a rifle more powerful than 700-1000fps then he must have used an externally powered gun (running on external HPA or CO2 tank) which is kinda easy to spot over the days.
Sorry, but the whole thing doesn't make sense.
Last edited by Trasher-HU on Thu 03 Jul, 2008 00:16; edited 1 time in total |
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