Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Share your Berget "know-how" and what is necessary to be prepared for when going to Berget-games.
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Which Berget was the Best Berget?

B2
0
No votes
B3
0
No votes
B4
0
No votes
B5
1
4%
B6
1
4%
B7
2
8%
B8
5
21%
B9
1
4%
B10
1
4%
B11
0
No votes
B12
1
4%
B13
4
17%
B14
1
4%
B15
2
8%
B16
5
21%
 
Total votes: 24

Panzergraf
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Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by Panzergraf » 17 Jul 2018, 23:55

(The poll would only let me add 15 options, so I skipped B1)

Now, there are some of us who've attended 10 Berget games, or even more.
In your opinion, which was the best you ever attended?

Please also add your thoughts on why that particular game was so great.
Was it anything BE did with missions, rules, or scenario you liked, or was it just the group of friends you traveled with that made the experience amazing?
Or was it just the weather?
Veteran of 11 Berget Games
B6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
B16 - Upir Mech

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Re: Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by Panzergraf » 18 Jul 2018, 00:06

Personally, I really really enjoyed Berget 8 in 2010.
It was at Sollefteå, same area as this year and last year.

This was, I think, the first year they used a Dark Woodland VS Tan/Desert uniform split, and the first year of NAF vs Poldavia.
This made the two sides visually distinct from each other, and gave the game organizer flexibility with writing their scenario, rather than having to be locked into what real world organizations like NATO and the UN had to be like.
One of the downsides was that this made Poldavia (dark/woodland) a much bigger faction than NAF (light/desert), but it's hard to get these things perfectly balanced no matter what.
I was in the Poldavian 3rd Mountaineers that year, and really enjoyed how that battallion operated, with a focus on "big picture" operations - that is taking control of the game area and vital roads, rather than just going out, doing X-mission, and going home to wait for the next one.
It made the game feel more realistic and less "Game-y".
The weather was crap all week through, but that didn't really matter. :)

The "least good" Berget I attended was probably B7, for pretty much the opposite reasons in all cases.
It was a hodgepodge of different factions, and other than armbands you could hardly tell them apart. Weather was nice though.
Veteran of 11 Berget Games
B6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
B16 - Upir Mech

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Re: Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by Arradin » 18 Jul 2018, 00:41

Panzergraf wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 00:06

I was in the Poldavian 3rd Mountaineers that year, and really enjoyed how that battallion operated, with a focus on "big picture" operations - that is taking control of the game area and vital roads, rather than just going out, doing X-mission, and going home to wait for the next one.
It made the game feel more realistic and less "Game-y".
Great thread!

However, I would like for you to expand on this quoted part , because i dont fully understand what you mean.

Since B8 was way before our current digital world with Digital CPs and a Digital map for all to see, i would like your opinion on how it was better ( in order to improve on B17 and forward ).

You say that " taking control of game area and vital roads " was enjoyed, but how was it more enjoyed than what it is now? And i dont just mean berget 16, but also earlier where we used CPs for objectives such as Crossroads.
What has changed in your opinion, and what is it that makes it less fun now?
You can reach me directly at email: berget@arradin.com

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Re: Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by Windi^ » 18 Jul 2018, 07:31

Berget 5, the first on I attended. Mostly due to so beautiful and great location of Härnö island. I understand that nowadays it's not usable for this size game and even back then the area was splitted in to portions, but still, man it was cool place.
You say that " taking control of game area and vital roads " was enjoyed, but how was it more enjoyed than what it is now? And i dont just mean berget 16, but also earlier where we used CPs for objectives such as Crossroads.
What has changed in your opinion, and what is it that makes it less fun now?
Arradin, I feel the same way. Then the holding of actual cross road, to actually stop enemy convoy or whatever was different. Now stuff happens on a digital map and there is very little going on real life. The map has become a gimmick that has to be used, because it exists. It was more pleasuring to actually try to find the nuke silos from the forest no maps showing where to go. On convoys we actually spend one whole day on B6 planning how to stop whole enemy convoy (all the cars in enemy faction), made a stick model of the roads and forest, plan it, execute it.

Now most of the stuff is: go push button on cp1,2,3,4,5,6, wait 28hours and you get a tank to your faction. Whupii, so HQ tells people to take same locations all game long, hold them forever and get something that really doesn't affect 95% of the players or give them more to do. Then people get angry since they go to same locations day after day to go and push the same button. Or where is all "gather these equipments and build a missile" kind of missions? If you look back the game missions and mechanics all the way to B5, you will see a trend what has happened to the missions since Digital map and CP's were introduced. I agree that there is a place for those in a game, but they have become the dominator factor and all missions beyond button pushing are forgotten.
B5, FFF Turku-2 Squad leader
B6, SRP Snake 1-0 Platoon leader
B7, SRP Bull 1-0 Platoon leader
B8, Civilian, 6mm merc
B9, UN, 6mm Company, 1st PLT leader
B10, Zanzia, Delta plt, Link officer
B12, Yuri Orlov Mercenaries
B14, NAF HQ Intel S2
B15, NAF HQ Intel S2
B16, UPIR HQ QRF

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Re: Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by Arradin » 18 Jul 2018, 11:16

Windi^ wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 07:31
Arradin, I feel the same way.
Veterans loved how it used to be, while new people (New to berget) are amazed by how it works. There are alot of things that were not better back then, People couldnt find the action, people didnt know where they could respawn, everything ( and i really mean everything ) had to be done manually from crew, and it put a ton of extra workload on the commanders.

BUT, with that said, im not saying that you are wrong. Because i know you have excellent points. More missions are great, and if its wanted, it will happen. During B14 we were told there were too many missions, so 15 and 16 we reduced number of missions in favour of the CP system. Looking back at B16, I wanted to create more missions.

Questions ( Constructive such ):

1) What stops players from creating ambushes and holding vital points such as the shrine this year? we didnt put a CP there for the exact reason that we see it as a Natural objective. Middle of map, major crossroad, important for all mech.. Yet nobody cared about it most of the time?

2) what happens on the map, also happens in real. This year we had several convoys rolling around, which was updated on the map in real time, but once again, even with up to an hour advance , very little people reacted to it.

3) Is it possible that people get spoiled by he technoligy? Let's face it, just a couple of years ago, we wouldnt dream about having actual tanks rolling around shooting airsoft and being shot out. Im sure you remember the "wooden" Tank we used way back when? Back then, that was alot of fun, amazing actually. But now its "meh" Suddenly?

The CP System and all around it is here to stay , and will be improved further for sure.
MIssions is something to work on, and i would love to hear more ideas on what kind of missions you would like to see.
You can reach me directly at email: berget@arradin.com

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Re: Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by Windi^ » 18 Jul 2018, 12:05

Arradin wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 11:16

Veterans loved how it used to be, while new people (New to berget) are amazed by how it works. There are alot of things that were not better back then, People couldnt find the action, people didnt know where they could respawn, everything ( and i really mean everything ) had to be done manually from crew, and it put a ton of extra workload on the commanders.

BUT, with that said, im not saying that you are wrong. Because i know you have excellent points. More missions are great, and if its wanted, it will happen. During B14 we were told there were too many missions, so 15 and 16 we reduced number of missions in favour of the CP system. Looking back at B16, I wanted to create more missions.
I absolutely agree on this, it is a great tool to show players important locations and so on. But at the same time at least for my eyes it has come the only mission driven thing in the games, along with CP controlling. CP's are fine for respawn/are control, but as the main objective to get control something ingame valuable stuff (tanks for example), it comes really repetitive really quickly. And that comes really boring for players quickly and then they feel that HQ is screwing them over since they send them to same missions over and over again. CP's are great supportive tool for the game (available respawn or so) to support the actual missions for the faction.
1) What stops players from creating ambushes and holding vital points such as the shrine this year? we didnt put a CP there for the exact reason that we see it as a Natural objective. Middle of map, major crossroad, important for all mech.. Yet nobody cared about it most of the time?
My guess is that due to this years so many controllable points and control time either faction didn't have the necessary troops to hold all CP's, attack/defend them and then control crossroads. Especially the TF being over complicated cluster f*ck as it was, dangerous I might say.
2) what happens on the map, also happens in real. This year we had several convoys rolling around, which was updated on the map in real time, but once again, even with up to an hour advance , very little people reacted to it.
Sometimes the "convoy" is just on offgame vehicle needed to be stopped. Or the convoy had so little meaning for the faction so it got overlooked my the HQ due to all hold the CP stuff. An hour is not enough, to mobilize sufficient amount of troops with all the distance and enemy movement it takes hours to get anything done, unfortunately. So these takes a long time to prepare. For example reds informed that 0900 HQ meeting and troops ready was actually players waking up 0930 or so, meaning nothing major wasn't going to hapen next 2hours. This is of course beyond BE, but you need to take it into account.
3) Is it possible that people get spoiled by he technoligy? Let's face it, just a couple of years ago, we wouldnt dream about having actual tanks rolling around shooting airsoft and being shot out. Im sure you remember the "wooden" Tank we used way back when? Back then, that was alot of fun, amazing actually. But now its "meh" Suddenly?
Probably so. I myself don't need, or even want, TF kind of makebelief factory that was more dangerous than fun resulting almost in fights. The Härnösand village is bit different since it really creates a feeling of a town with the buildings. Couple of sheet metal walls just don't cut it, so I would prefer no such buildings at all (FAD's are fine for this but other buildings nah). And those have to be made so that 10 persons can't hold +100 player attack, then the building is build so that it's too hard to take, and too dangerous since people are braking all the possible rules almost.

The tanks, maybe people see them being used too gimmicky way. They are cool props, but at least this year it seemed to be the main thing to have, but didn't actually create that much leverage when having those.

B10 we had to hold back the huge ass truck not to get to the missile launch location, that was cool. Searching for weapons from the woods, or pilot. Escorts, convoys (B6 huge convoy), oil fields to get gold to buy helo drops/artillery, Rico hunting and so on. Stuff that has actual meaning for the game and to the story, CP's and map supporting the operations.
B5, FFF Turku-2 Squad leader
B6, SRP Snake 1-0 Platoon leader
B7, SRP Bull 1-0 Platoon leader
B8, Civilian, 6mm merc
B9, UN, 6mm Company, 1st PLT leader
B10, Zanzia, Delta plt, Link officer
B12, Yuri Orlov Mercenaries
B14, NAF HQ Intel S2
B15, NAF HQ Intel S2
B16, UPIR HQ QRF

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Re: Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by Panzergraf » 12 Aug 2018, 18:49

Arradin wrote:
18 Jul 2018, 00:41
You say that " taking control of game area and vital roads " was enjoyed, but how was it more enjoyed than what it is now? And i dont just mean berget 16, but also earlier where we used CPs for objectives such as Crossroads.
What has changed in your opinion, and what is it that makes it less fun now?

1) What stops players from creating ambushes and holding vital points such as the shrine this year? we didnt put a CP there for the exact reason that we see it as a Natural objective. Middle of map, major crossroad, important for all mech.. Yet nobody cared about it most of the time?

2) what happens on the map, also happens in real. This year we had several convoys rolling around, which was updated on the map in real time, but once again, even with up to an hour advance , very little people reacted to it.

3) Is it possible that people get spoiled by he technoligy? Let's face it, just a couple of years ago, we wouldnt dream about having actual tanks rolling around shooting airsoft and being shot out. Im sure you remember the "wooden" Tank we used way back when? Back then, that was alot of fun, amazing actually. But now its "meh" Suddenly?
Hmm, kinda hard to explain, but there's nothing wrong with the way the current digital system works, and there's no reason the play style I described from B8 can't be implemented with the digital CP map.

1) Nothing, really. But for some reason command (on both sides, as far as I could tell?) focused more on sending people out on a CP whack-a-mole.
As you say, it would still be possible (and probably even useful) for one side to kindof form a defensive line across half the game area, rather than just sitting on the CP's themselves.

3) Very possible. I do really appreciate the new real tanks we have, but as I mentioned in another thread the bit about capturing factories to control them felt like a gimmick. I liked the wooden tanks too, they were nice for what they were.
Veteran of 11 Berget Games
B6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16
B16 - Upir Mech

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Re: Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by L4gi » 12 Aug 2018, 22:46

B12 when we were the CIA-unit/Red Cross. That was fun. :P
B7 / B8 / B9 / B10 / B11 / B12 / B13 / B14 / B15 / B16

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Re: Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by Tiger_1 » 14 Aug 2018, 08:57

I Will have to go with B8 also, not because it was a perfectly run event, but because of the game area, the fact that I ran the 3rd Mountaineers and had my own base. Not that small faction bases are the best solution, but I had a motivated group who really got in to the spirit of things and did a great event.
I think command and who has it, and their ability to take Berget overall game plan, and then make their own, is key. For all Berget I commanded I gave initial orders every day based on a overall plan. This had (and sorry Berget) nothing to do with what Berget wanted me to do, but it set my guys up to solve most missions Berget gave us. It also meant a lot of small missions never really got issued as orders, but were still carried out, and a large nr of Berget missions never were completed. I still believe most of my units had action, and worked to an overall plan of action, just not Berget’s plan ;)
I have to give B15 a mention in dispatches, leadership was great for our side (at least from a company command level view), and we worked from a overall plan, and reacted to events, controlling key terrain and dealing with the enemy when we needed to, to achieve our missions. Thanks to L4gi and his command group!
If I can give advice, work on motivating commanders at all levels, give them enough space, and don’t let a pre planned mission deck control events. Having a Berget crew liaison with the command team, that can coordinate with the guys running the overall game plan, and able to react to facts on the ground would help a lot.
To mention bad things, rocket trucks that don’t stop and coordinate with the faction tasked with protecting them (B10, looking a you here!) and the final missions this year that had our tanks drive to the crossroads without coordinating with us, meant they showed up at the wrong time, without proper support.
Keep up the good work Berget, I will keep coming to the event :)
"go to your God like a soldier!"

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Re: Veteran Poll - Best Berget You Attended

Post by Losolos » 19 Sep 2018, 14:56

B6 ... Mercenaries was really great ..Harnosand Area and there was no buildings only the Merc camp !

B12 most tragic .. the lost of Rico and the really funny unit of Al Kazzar.

so B18 i hope will be really good again :)
B5 Allied Forces Squad Leader
B6 General Conrads Mercenaries Company Commander
B7 Milos Tigers XO
B8 PSYOPS
B9 UN Officer
B10 PSYOPS
B11 Raven Outcasts
B12 Al Kazzar CO
B13 HADES CO
B14 NAF - really not the best Berget
B15 UPIR
B16 CIV service for the players

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