Berget 18 - General Feedback

[Berget-events]

Please share your feedback to help us make even better games!

[Sebastian R05]

I realise this is noted on the forum under the rules, but it is very difficult to read and remember all the rules, and this specific rule has been an issue two events in a row now.
Both years, someone has shot (and kept shooting) at the driver.
The driver has reacted very, angry, shouted, grabbed and thrown weapons and really been pissed off both times (I understand why btw) but in the heat of the moment, I also understand that you as someone being face to face with a tank you'd try anything to take it out, so it doesn't blow up your and your mates.
My feedback: Before 21:00 on wednesday, when each leader of the factions will talk to the crowds, could you make sure to include this rule. Or make it very very clear, somehow, NOT TO SHOOT AT THE DRIVER! So that everyone can enjoy a game without having to yell at others or having to be yelled at.

Otherwise Berget 18 was really really joyfull <3

[krilar]

Agree with Sebastian R05 regarding Tanks, I witnessed the driver went off on a teammate since he was shooting at him (it was my friends first Berget). Ofcourse understandable that driver reacts, but keep it civil. Also, it is impossible to see any yellow of the tank driver since only his helmet is showing, glue a yellow vest to his helmet and I assume the issue will fix itself.

Yellow base had no showers, not that big issue, it would just be nice to know / setup a plan for showering at enemy base (my team had ingame car, but I think for those who don't, it's harder to arrange showering).

Armbands - really bad this year. Last Berget they were top notch, and believing we would get the same armband this year I didn't make one / bring the good one, but this was not the case, and people were losing their armbands, putting them on vests, helmets etc. which caused some players to rage a bit (GM confirmed it was fine to have on head/vest etc) but still this really needs to be better. I don't care if price goes up aslong as the armband stays on.

As a yellow player we encountered some angry players who didn't approve of our Holy Water, maybe special effects like this should be announced pregame (it could have been announced, but we encountered a bit of players who simply didn't know or understand it).

Suggestion for BAVS - we met a ingame car on red team that was cheating (if they knew it or not I am not sure) but their BAVS system had not been reset/turned on etc., so we could not disable the car, and it was blocking the road. Maybe a tamper-proof container or other system that wouldn't allow situations like this?

[Edward]

Armbands - really bad this year. Last Berget they were top notch, and believing we would get the same armband this year I didn't make one / bring the good one, but this was not the case, and people were losing their armbands, putting them on vests, helmets etc. which caused some players to rage a bit (GM confirmed it was fine to have on head/vest etc) but still this really needs to be better. I don't care if price goes up aslong as the armband stays on.

To this I admit that I was one of the "raging guys". Because I call these reasons utterly bs. ****bands that BE provided earlier years, especially to mercs B15 and 16, were pretty much completely unusable. And still we had those in our arms with safety pins, everytime.
Also approval from GM sound classic case that left hand doesn´t know what right one does.
Also straight quote from rules:

When constructing your own armband, it must be at least 11 cm (4.3 inch) wide and have your individual team-number and unit-name visible in black. Players without correct armbands won't be allowed into the game-area.

And still there were players with narrow yellow band, somewhere in the body, with no armband number.
But not all blame to the yellows, same **** was seen also with other factions.

As suggestion, SERIOUSLY usable armband that is included to ticket price, or at least check the band at the check in that it meets requiments.


Thank god there weren't any civilians in the game, indentifying between them and yellow would have been nightmare.

[krilar]

@Edward Yeah I don't fault anyone for being mad, I think most people were trying to make the best out of it. People with skinny arms literally could not attach the armband at all as it slid down the arm, and some players lost theirs due to this, probably why some had slimmer armbands/tape/other solutions. If we knew the armbands would be bad we would ofcourse make our own, or bring safety pins, etc. I heard one guy lost his armband 3 times and it was brought to him from others, but everyone wasn't that lucky.
As for GM approval yeah I agree, the GM we spoke to said it was fine this time due to the bad armband construction this year, as long as the armband was visible. Next year I think we will just make our own. I'm sure one GM will say something different than another, but as players we can only listen to what we are told

[vinni]

A general observation, I know it was in favour of game mechanics but still:

*ahem*

RADIATION DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT

[grasulas]

By far worst Berget ever ...

- pregame organization inexistent, asking on telegram with 6 hours before start game who wants to be coy cmdr ...
- retarded rules with people who can resurrect themselves, please at least make them use a mana indicator next time to know exactly how many times we have to kill them.
- LARP, what LARP there where 2 priests, 2 LARP characters for the entire event and please don't tell me I could interact with yellow, my ROE with them for the entire game time was shoot on site ...
- Except the mission with the nuke and the one with the pilot the rest of the event was one big capture the flag game not the Berget experience I had when I participated 14 years ago, in fact the last Berget game for me was Iron Walls the rest ... well lets say I`m not going to participate another Berget "competition" who can make more points.

[Team Vanguard]

Dear Berget,

Me and my teammates have experienced Berget from Berget 11 Iron Walls. Our first Berget was awesome. The ones after decreasing slowly from a great organized super MilSim to an Airsoft festival. We experienced Berget 18 the worst of all in terms of organization, commando guidance, game master intervention (where were they?), mission assignment, game-rules supervision and a general experience of a MilSim with LARP players included.

Also, the last years we playing from the same area at the same base camp. It gets boring. No one cares how or what is going on in the camp. We just a bunch of Airsofters placed their tents and going to Airsoft with random missions for points (Airsoft is not a competition). We miss the times that you strictly need to announce yourself at the HQ and they guide you to your platoon. From there, the platoon leaders get there orders and assign them to squads. We liked the times when Rico the dictator align all the forces in front of him and giving a speech at the beginning of the event. This way we get the feeling we operate as a whole.

In Summery;

1. Make it MilSim again. Not playing for points
2. Make a simple story with interesting objectives. Create more larping. Where did the Berget dollars go?
3. Be strict with your organization. Let no one do it's one thing and make everyone part of the whole team
4. Create a good and overwhelming commando structure with people that boost the moral. This way we get pushed harder to battle till the last man standing
5. Search for new locations or at least switch base areas. If complainant from locals is an issue, be strict and condemn the one causing nuisance
6. Don't use bullshit rules like holy-water. Begins to looks like zombie games. I'm sure that most MilSim'ers are not into that.
7. Be strict with game rules
   • Chronoing all guns before game make no sense if you not randomly check guns in the field. Be strict with muzzle energy regulations
   • Midcaps with capacity over 100 are strictly forbidden!? If you never check on this, people ignore this type of rules. Be strict with and maintane rules
   • Inspecting base. Behavior of people. Firepits, waste, bio-bbs, color of their tent (must be camo). Just show all participant that you as organizer be strict with the rules and like to make it nice for everyone

Hoping to see a real MilSim next year where we yelling YEAH again if we win a great battle together.

[igariokas]

Well as far as I understand you played Red side.

And I am pretty surprised to see that feedback, are you sure you attended same Berget 18 other players did?

Regarding organisation:

- You needed to announce yourself to hq, and guided to platoon, everyone did it either in person either their squad leader did it. And it also was discussed during webinar.

- actually this event was organised better then the previous one. We had communicated with players before the game, there was written orders sent to all players (who actually reported themselves), we even had a webinar for all players, where issued reccomendations and discussed open issues.
- we had base officer to whom you should have reported every time you are back to base, so he could either assign you to duty or new mission etc.

- we didn’t align the forces stand before game because of the heat. Even 20 minutes in the sun during the start with all your gear would not get you in the mood and possibly get someone into ambulance.

- command structure was published before the game. If you want to do something about it tell us about it. We always try new people, and those people can be good or bad. So i will not discuss it here. But in my opinion morale was actually high

I will not comment anything regarding enforcing rules and such. Let Berget crew speak ir if they feel like it.

In short I would say this berget was tough, people are still rusty, huge number of no shows, big number of people just totally ignoring whatever you are trying to tell them and ignoring contact beforegame, hot weather. But from organisational point of view it was managed exceptionally good, both from berget crew and hq.

It is just as usual: player creates the game for himself. There is a huge layer of activity with rules and speeches and othe stuff if you are willing to join. But there is always an option of player just showing up and doing whatever he wants without any regards to the hq.

Dear Berget,

Me and my teammates have experienced Berget from Berget 11 Iron Walls. Our first Berget was awesome. The ones after decreasing slowly from a great organized super MilSim to an Airsoft festival. We experienced Berget 18 the worst of all in terms of organization, commando guidance, game master intervention (where were they?), mission assignment, game-rules supervision and a general experience of a MilSim with LARP players included.

Also, the last years we playing from the same area at the same base camp. It gets boring. No one cares how or what is going on in the camp. We just a bunch of Airsofters placed their tents and going to Airsoft with random missions for points (Airsoft is not a competition). We miss the times that you strictly need to announce yourself at the HQ and they guide you to your platoon. From there, the platoon leaders get there orders and assign them to squads. We liked the times when Rico the dictator align all the forces in front of him and giving a speech at the beginning of the event. This way we get the feeling we operate as a whole.

In Summery;

1. Make it MilSim again. Not playing for points
2. Make a simple story with interesting objectives. Create more larping. Where did the Berget dollars go?
3. Be strict with your organization. Let no one do it's one thing and make everyone part of the whole team
4. Create a good and overwhelming commando structure with people that boost the moral. This way we get pushed harder to battle till the last man standing
5. Search for new locations or at least switch base areas. If complainant from locals is an issue, be strict and condemn the one causing nuisance
6. Don't use bullshit rules like holy-water. Begins to looks like zombie games. I'm sure that most MilSim'ers are not into that.
7. Be strict with game rules
   • Chronoing all guns before game make no sense if you not randomly check guns in the field. Be strict with muzzle energy regulations
   • Midcaps with capacity over 100 are strictly forbidden!? If you never check on this, people ignore this type of rules. Be strict with and maintane rules
   • Inspecting base. Behavior of people. Firepits, waste, bio-bbs, color of their tent (must be camo). Just show all participant that you as organizer be strict with the rules and like to make it nice for everyone

Hoping to see a real MilSim next year where we yelling YEAH again if we win a great battle together.

[grasulas]

For those of you who are new to berget, this was a BERGET game:

https://youtu.be/ewoQ7BJoqxk

[Rythm]

This concerns Berget Events and nothing else. Red team will have a separate feedback meeting later this week for lessons learned.

I am glad there is Berget where i can meet so many mates i gotten to know via Berget. From an organizational/game-point this was a sub-optimal berget tough:

Using Yellow as a balancing tool: This is fucking bollocks. Didnt work on B15, didnt work on B18. NEVER USE THIS AGAIN!!! making the same mistake again is utter bollocks. The critique given after B15 seem to not have been learned. If I ever smell this is going to be the case again i will leave mid-game, and convince as many as possible to do the same. This seems to be the only way left, to forward the negativity of such tools. You did balance the game much better in the past, like on Iron walls, go back to that.

No LARP: Seriously, the LARP aspect is your biggest Unique Selling Point. This year there was none due to above reason. Switching Rules of engagement 6 times during the game is bollocks. No LARP is bollocks. I feel very sad for the yellow players, who actually have to pay to be a simple balancing tool! Same goes for Red players who were tasked and looking forward to do LARP. Bring back proper civilians!

GM interference: The worst i ever have seen! Even tough we were outnumbered we constantly got blocked, obstructed, re-directed, accused of cheating & lying etc. It was so bad the GM was refered to as "the difficult one" both by Red and Yellow. The lads even made memes about this bloke. Seriously makes me question why i should ever take on command and dedicate so much time preparing hundreds of players for YOU. This needs to be solved!

Interactive map: This was innovative a few years ago when first introduced. But it hasnt been developed as far as i can see and today there are better ones available. Sign a contract with Ares Alpha and get a much better system. This tool is not a part of your core business anyway.

[anbengts]

The idea with assigning blue players to Teams through Telegram QR codes worked fine. One of the companies had around 90 players from 15 countries. They also had a company commander who had not been Berget commander before, instead he stepped up and grow into the role. Even if he was recruited two hours before the game started Blue HQ asked for commanders long before the game without any answers.

Tanks is a difficult balance. Why not build something in plexiglas to protect Tom and his crew? In the middle of a fight it is difficult to make sure not one person is hit. Also, I guess half of the people at Berget don't know where the driver is located
This year we also got confirmed by crew that the tanks, the two specific vehicle, had special rules, for example drive next to the road, so they could not be blocked out. Tank rules is a difficult balance.

Water tanks should be on the digital online map.

From blue HQ the collaboration with Game Master was good. We did not always agree, but we had a two way dialog during the game. I understand there are a LOT of parameters that Berget Event needs to consider before yes to a idea.

Berget crew started to remove CP before game stop this year. Also most, almost all, blue players started to back at Friday morning. It has been the same several years. Why not start the game a couple of earlier and end Saturday 0300 am, after the big fight. There is no use of the Saturday as it is now.

LARP can provide a good value to the game. But please don't include magic anymore. I know you wanted to something that did not reflect the real work this year. But for the future, keep LARP but make them as normal humans in a conflict area and add them to the story.

Make sure to use the same grid system on the paper map as on the online map. It makes artillery and communication in general easier.

[plushechnik]

Hi there,

I'm writing on behalf of our small (8 persons) team from Israel. We've been on the yellow side.

First of all many thanks for the game to organizers and all the participants!!!
It was our first Berget and we've enjoyed it and we want to come again.

We can specify several points for improvements:

• The patches mentioned already .

• We believe a bit more of the marshal's presence is required - there were several cases to report yet no one was around.
  The BAVS detectors on some transport were cheated several times by cover or disconnection.

• The most important improvement we think should be in means of communication - on the yellow side at least.
  Some status once in half an hour on some radio frequency or other channel could improve the experience a lot.

• A bit better coordinated transportation can save a lot of energy

Also we curious to see some short summary from organizers here on forum or in the news.

Thanks again, we hope to see you next year!!!

[vinni]

In past years we have struggled, fought, and argued to allow recon teams and other 'special' non-sniper teams to wear anything more than head-cover in the sense of ghillie camouflage, with the end result being allowed scrim netting covering head, shoulders, and a bit of arm.

So it stung a little to see entire platoons of Jaegers wearing ghillies, armbands on legs, toting everything from machine guns to AT4s.

Non-consistent ruling is frustrating, and many angry comments were made about non-snipers wearing armbands on legs.
Please clarify this in the rules, or enforce the rules more, and make the rules equal for both sides.

/edit: Red Cobra units weren't allowed (or informed) to wear ghillies (except for sniper, ofc), and based on previous rulings only light camouflage on head, shoulders, and a bit of arm were used.

In addition:

Water tanks should be on the digital online map.

Excellent idea! +1 to that.

[igariokas]

This is the feedback I have as a General of the Red forces.

Our HQ will have a debriefing meeting at a later date, but it is really hard to find a time slot. So more feedback will probably come later.

Warning, it may be a boring and long post skip it if you wish. but one before last paragraph is dedicated to players who are not feeling engaged or feel that missions are not good, please read it. Thanks


First of all, that was not the worst berget game for me. It was not the best, but still it was not bad at all. I knew I will be leading Red forces for at least a year, which gave me and teammates time to plan in more relaxed way without rush etc.
This year HQ personnel was selected very fast, we basically set the HQ from the very beginning, and that was a good thing. Some of us didn't make it to the game unfortunately, so we had to replan fast, but we managed it.

Short review: the game was interesting. Opposing commander knew his shit. Yellow as balancing tool don't work, a lot of players want LARP, give us more LARP please. When yellow are used as balancing tool LARP doesn't work at all. We want to build relation, negotiate, etc. But they turn on us without any warning making LARP impossible. Point system has no point unless you want a speedball competition (and we were told this year the points are not needed at all, showed just for testing purposes, but my feeling is that we don't need it, or make it hidden if you want to trade points for some goodies). Water was good, kiosk was excellent, base logistics worked. damn, that was most tidy and clean base I ever saw, all trash was disposed timely and correctly etc. Toilets were on the clean side Missions were ok, I see we had a long pause and it was uneasy start for Berget Crew, I believe they will speed up next year.

Now, let me tell you a thing or two about the planning itself and involvement of everyone in the process.

first of all, all people in HQ are players just like everyone else, who are playing same airsoft you are, and none of us is affiliated with Berget Crew commercially. Of course those guys and gals have already become my friends over those years , but none of HQ personnel is benefitting any money from the game.

So, back to the planning. Right after we have built the HQ (at least main officers) we have a meeting online to divide the responsibilities between people, basically who is responsible for what. we had people responsible for military ops, intelligence, communications, base defence, tent placement etc. all the normal stuff you usually have before and during the game. By the way, there will be a youtube video regarding pregame planning made by Verage (https://www.youtube.com/c/VerageAirsoft ), it will be based on our planning for this game, so subscribe and like and see it for yourself.
After initial meeting we schedule all the meetings till the game start. This year we had an online meeting every 3-4 weeks, just as a situation update etc., plus we organised additional meetings with company commanders and platoon commanders. and yes, that is a lot of meetings and a lot of material to write down, especially when we all are working our main jobs.
Anyway, during those meetings we discuss how the tents will be placed, who will organise base defence and how it will be organised, where we put what unit at game start, which person goes to which platoon etc. We do get player list from Berget Crew (no names, no emails, no contact details, just the nickname, country and player number), unfortunately this year it was a bit messy, since not everyone responded to Berget call to either confirm their presence or postpone the ticket. But we still divided the list into the platoons, then into squads, etc.

After we are more or less ready with the planning we sit tight and wait for oporders (Berget Operation Orders), which is a document describing ROE, all sides of the story, etc. If you want I will post this year oporder somewhere, just let me know in reply.

After we receive oporder we have primary and secondary missions in it, so we can plan on how we execute those missions and create our own missions for achieving the big goal. And by the way CP control is usually only secondary objective.

For your understanding, Berget gives primary and secondary goals, while all the missions are actually brought to you by HQ (Berget people of course help and sometimes correct the storyline, sometimes do not allow our chosen path because of game balancing or other things).

Now the paragraph for those who feel forgotten or get lousy missions throughout the game. Why the hell you do not show up to the HQ during the game then? we have several hundred players attending on our side, and we can't oversee everyone of you. If you have problems why don't you show up at the HQ door and say your concerns? HQ was operating 21-22 hours per day, and those who had concerns and went to the hq had their problems addressed. Shit, I even helped the poor guy who was not able to breath through his nose at 4 am one night by giving him some medicine. We have all players information channel, we had checkin in base for defence and for availability for next mission, we had a dedicated person who was delivering missions to anyone available. And HQ schedule was as follows: most HQ officers were up till base went offgame at 3 am and get up at 9 am. I was up till 4-4:30 am, Vinni (my 3rd in command) was getting up at 5:30, Rythm (second in command) was always up at 8 am. so HQ worked like nearly 24 hours per day. Please find the time to get there if you are not happy with something. We even had a coffee machine dedicated to all players in HQ so everyone could get themselves a cup of espresso or cappuccino free of charge and discuss the game. BTW, we spend our own money on that, just to keep you closer to HQ
Another thing is player ignorance before the game.. Come on, we are trying to make this game for you, and you are not even answering or even reading any forums or emails from berget. We had all player webinar 2 weeks before game, where we answered all the questions, explained how checkin in the base system work, what are our goals and missions, introduced the roster with all the commanders and all players, gave access to channels of communication etc. I did even record it and sent it to everyone, in case someone forget something or didn't make it to webinar. I do understand that everyone have their life and real life jobs etc but please find 30-40 minutes of your time during 3 months to read a little bit or maybe ask some questions. If you don't care about your game, no one will care about it. By the way, due to GDPR requirements Berget crew is not allowed to share your email address with me or anyone from HQ. the only thing they can do is email you once with our text, which was done when we scheduled the webinar.

So my suggestion for improving your game would be the following. Pregame: monitor the forum and news on berget-events.com. when the news who is the commander are out put him a pm on forum, let him know you are here. if there is a callout on forum, answer to it, let us know you are coming and we will keep you in the loop. During the game: if you feel something is wrong come to HQ, we will address your problem. If you are getting lousy missions come to hq, if your commander is no good, come to hq. 90-95% of all issues can be solved by addressing them at once, there is no need to carry on and then suddenly spit it out on the forums

See you next year,
General Fuentes
Igoris