The lack of civilians
Airsoft is not the real war, at the most it is a simulation. I hope you all are not forgetting Berget is a Game ! You all must understand, out there are people with different views about crualty and barbarism displayed in a game. Playing to burne civillians in a church or shooting prisoners for no reason at all, does not go inside with my view of a fun game.
We do not have to play war crimes, there has been done enough in the real world !
We do not have to play war crimes, there has been done enough in the real world !
B6 2nd Bat. CO NATO
B7 Batallion CO Milo´s Tigers
B8 Batallion CO NAF 5th Infantry
B9. Batallion CO NAF 1st Mech
B10 R&R
B11 lets see
War is the continuation of politics by other means. (Klausewitz)
B7 Batallion CO Milo´s Tigers
B8 Batallion CO NAF 5th Infantry
B9. Batallion CO NAF 1st Mech
B10 R&R
B11 lets see
War is the continuation of politics by other means. (Klausewitz)
- Hell_Viking
- Corporal
- Posts: 69
- Joined: 18 Jan 2007, 10:26
Well said !Ober-Lix wrote:Airsoft is not the real war, at the most it is a simulation. I hope you all are not forgetting Berget is a Game ! You all must understand, out there are people with different views about crualty and barbarism displayed in a game. Playing to burne civillians in a church or shooting prisoners for no reason at all, does not go inside with my view of a fun game.
We do not have to play war crimes, there has been done enough in the real world !
I think civis bring a new perspective to the game, and is in my book one of the most important fractions. But then again, this isn't a MILSIM, It's a happening.
K638
"Speak trough action"
"Speak trough action"
Indeed.
I'm really looking forward to this moral element coming into play at B10 as my faction is holding the citizens of my country in a concentration camp which, in game, I'll be very uncomfortable with.
I'm really looking forward to this moral element coming into play at B10 as my faction is holding the citizens of my country in a concentration camp which, in game, I'll be very uncomfortable with.
Poldavian Army, 5th Infantry, Tango Coy
You know when you've been Tango'd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXZFgGjB ... re=related
UK Airsoft Players Union
www.ukapu.org.uk
You know when you've been Tango'd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXZFgGjB ... re=related
UK Airsoft Players Union
www.ukapu.org.uk
+1Ober-Lix wrote: We do not have to play war crimes, there has been done enough in the real world !
It should be obvious for people where the lines should be drawned, between right and wrong there are som pretty clear lines. If you love the sport you should also care about its reputation. Dont drag the sport into a shady light with bad jugment and poor moral. Others will make asumptions based on what they see and hear , from you or others.
And we as a whole will be juged by your actions.
Don't let childish behavior ruin the sport we all care so much about.
Act and reflect "gentelman like" during your time at an event like Berget.
Its a airsoftgame. make sure your oponent has as much fun as yourself.
This attidude are, in my opinion, what real great airsoft games are made of.
Rainer
B9: Pol 1st Mech Bat
B10: Pol 5th infantry
B11: Missed it
B12 :PMC 3rd Crowbar
In war, truth is the first casualty.
B9: Pol 1st Mech Bat
B10: Pol 5th infantry
B11: Missed it
B12 :PMC 3rd Crowbar
In war, truth is the first casualty.
There's a difference between the torture and execution of specific individuals and the indiscriminate slaughter of (mostly) innocent civilians.Obi-San wrote:So why dont you judge executions and torchures then?
They happen all the time on BE.
Or they are less evil?
One is justifiable, the other isn't.
That said, I wouldn't say "war crimes" should be banned perse. I'd just like to see them have (severe) repercussions for the side that does commit them (although I for one wouldn't want to play for that side).
Right now I think there isn't enough connecting the average trooper to the ongoing MILSIM/LARP/plotline. That makes the whole moral choice / ethics seem a bit less important and makes it easier for some people to just frag anything they think they can get away with.
@ Lentus Last post of this page bij Vittex enjoy the read.
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B09 - NAF - 6th Airborne - FOX4
B10 - NAF - 23rd Infantry - FOX2.1 Radio Operator
B10 - NAF - 23rd Infantry - FOX2.1 Radio Operator
Berget is all about having fun, and players playing as civilians will get their fun from LARPing. Players burning them in the houses and constantly shooting civilians are denying that fun from a very big part from game participants. I see that one squad of players will maybe kill some civilians maybe just once in the game, but there is many squads and so few civilians.
I think this is the main problem here, not the ethics about violence. Some people may even find acting violence therapeutic(I've heard that victims of rape, war crimes etc. are sometimes in so-called "acting therapy where they re-enact the happenings that caused the trauma).
Civilian are not some funny targets to NAF/Poldavians/PMC/Zansia they're are players who wan't their part of the fun! And their fun is LARPing and interacting with players who LARP back!
As a solution, I would propose these actions:
1. in opening briefing it should be high lighted that cilivilians are PLAYERS too andthey have PAID their ticket too. Just mindlessly killing them makes they lose REAL money too.
2. Berget-Crew Game Masters patrolling the main civilian locations and intervening if civilians abused.
I think this is the main problem here, not the ethics about violence. Some people may even find acting violence therapeutic(I've heard that victims of rape, war crimes etc. are sometimes in so-called "acting therapy where they re-enact the happenings that caused the trauma).
Civilian are not some funny targets to NAF/Poldavians/PMC/Zansia they're are players who wan't their part of the fun! And their fun is LARPing and interacting with players who LARP back!
As a solution, I would propose these actions:
1. in opening briefing it should be high lighted that cilivilians are PLAYERS too andthey have PAID their ticket too. Just mindlessly killing them makes they lose REAL money too.
2. Berget-Crew Game Masters patrolling the main civilian locations and intervening if civilians abused.
Ive played as civilian, and dont tell me about raids, as there sure has been one at least every day, some platoon coming and shooting civilians just to go thru.
So i still think that if for some reason there was "chirch burning" in last day of berget, it is not the biggest problem of them all, it is great LARP moment.
Try to hold your forces not to shoot civilians all the time in first and second days of Berget.
So i still think that if for some reason there was "chirch burning" in last day of berget, it is not the biggest problem of them all, it is great LARP moment.
Try to hold your forces not to shoot civilians all the time in first and second days of Berget.
B7 - Orlov Mercs
B8 - Civilian Field Intelligence
B9 - Home Support Team
B10 - Mountaineers Foreign Legion
B11 - SVR Spetsnaz
B12 - Power Ranger
B13 - SADF Paras
B14 - Shadow of the NAF
B15 - NAF infantry. All of it
B16 - UPIR shareholder
B17 - TF Gecko
B8 - Civilian Field Intelligence
B9 - Home Support Team
B10 - Mountaineers Foreign Legion
B11 - SVR Spetsnaz
B12 - Power Ranger
B13 - SADF Paras
B14 - Shadow of the NAF
B15 - NAF infantry. All of it
B16 - UPIR shareholder
B17 - TF Gecko
So did you enjoy being shot up just for the hell of it?Obi-San wrote:Ive played as civilian, and dont tell me about raids, as there sure has been one at least every day, some platoon coming and shooting civilians just to go thru.
B09 - NAF - 6th Airborne - FOX4
B10 - NAF - 23rd Infantry - FOX2.1 Radio Operator
B10 - NAF - 23rd Infantry - FOX2.1 Radio Operator
If it makes you feel any better, 80% of the men responsible for the church insident where dead within 1 hour of it happening.......and the remaining 20 within the next 2.
So the poldavian army no longer has troops who do such things.
But loyal poldavian civilians must support their armed forces and help them in their struggle, do not aid NAF!
Remember, berget is no more LARP then it is Milsim, so unfortunately, until berget turns into one of the two, we will all have to live with events that does not fit with "our" idea of gameplay.
Just for the record, when it turns into LARP, I will not be coming....
So the poldavian army no longer has troops who do such things.
But loyal poldavian civilians must support their armed forces and help them in their struggle, do not aid NAF!
Remember, berget is no more LARP then it is Milsim, so unfortunately, until berget turns into one of the two, we will all have to live with events that does not fit with "our" idea of gameplay.
Just for the record, when it turns into LARP, I will not be coming....
"go to your God like a soldier!"
It was pretty fun. Many players that come to Berget dont even know what LARP is, and why they have to chat with some folks who shoot them in the back. They dont look at faces, they just remember that civilians shoot. So interaction with them equals death.DutchWolf wrote:So did you enjoy being shot up just for the hell of it?Obi-San wrote:Ive played as civilian, and dont tell me about raids, as there sure has been one at least every day, some platoon coming and shooting civilians just to go thru.
As long as civilians can shoot at soldiers, there will be backflip situations.
But many players just dont need any LARP interaction
B7 - Orlov Mercs
B8 - Civilian Field Intelligence
B9 - Home Support Team
B10 - Mountaineers Foreign Legion
B11 - SVR Spetsnaz
B12 - Power Ranger
B13 - SADF Paras
B14 - Shadow of the NAF
B15 - NAF infantry. All of it
B16 - UPIR shareholder
B17 - TF Gecko
B8 - Civilian Field Intelligence
B9 - Home Support Team
B10 - Mountaineers Foreign Legion
B11 - SVR Spetsnaz
B12 - Power Ranger
B13 - SADF Paras
B14 - Shadow of the NAF
B15 - NAF infantry. All of it
B16 - UPIR shareholder
B17 - TF Gecko
You will, as me, NEVER stay out!Tiger_1 wrote:If it makes you feel any better, 80% of the men responsible for the church insident where dead within 1 hour of it happening.......and the remaining 20 within the next 2.
So the poldavian army no longer has troops who do such things.
But loyal poldavian civilians must support their armed forces and help them in their struggle, do not aid NAF!
Remember, berget is no more LARP then it is Milsim, so unfortunately, until berget turns into one of the two, we will all have to live with events that does not fit with "our" idea of gameplay.
Just for the record, when it turns into LARP, I will not be coming....
Berget will NEVER be LARP.
Berget will NEVER be MILSIM.
Berget is BERGET...
There will always be both, and probably more type of playing. We can not demand Berget to be only one thing anymore.
If you do THAT, stay out!
I hope you all stay, playing just the kind of play you know and respect other who play theirs!
SITUATIONS will also ALWAYS be there!
Let us deal with it...
B5 - B12 Yes!
B13 - Mr. PINK
B14 - BBB - V.President
B15 - MIA
B16 - B17 Bartender
B18 - Crow
B13 - Mr. PINK
B14 - BBB - V.President
B15 - MIA
B16 - B17 Bartender
B18 - Crow